Apple Unveils Vision Pro, Its First XR Headset

Apple's latest "one more thing"

Jun 5, 2023

Today at Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) the Cupertino tech giant unveiled its long-awaited XR headset, dubbed Vision Pro.

Similar to Meta’s Quest Pro and newly unveiled Quest 3 headset, Apple’s first mixed reality headset is capable of both virtual reality and augmented reality thanks to its color passthrough cameras, however it appears the company is focusing much more on AR tasks.

Called a “spatial computer” by Apple, the device is in large part targeting general computing tasks such as content consumption, video chatting, and productivity apps–the sort you might find on the company’s iPads and Macs, albeit available through its own device-specific App Store.

Apple Vision Pro’s input is based on optical hand tracking, eye-tracking, and voice input, and doesn’t feature controllers like headsets decidedly more dedicated to gaming.

Here’s a brief breakdown of the spec shared with us today: Apple’s M2 chipset runs the standalone headset, while its new R1 chip processes input from 12 cameras, five sensors, and six microphones. R1 is said to stream new images to the displays “within 12 milliseconds — 8x faster than the blink of an eye,” the company says. That cable and pack you see in the image above is actually a battery, which the company says provides two hours of use.

Vision Pro features custom micro‑OLED display system which the company says packs in 23 million pixels, or more than a 4K TV. We’re still learning about more specific hardware specs, such as field-of-view (FOV) and more concrete numbers for its displays.

The headset also features an exterior display to show a user’s eyes. A system, called EyeSight, can either obscure the digital version of your eyes to other people in the room, or show them to indicate you’re ready to talk face-to-face.

Vision Pro is coming to the US first in early 2024, priced starting at $3,500, putting it clearly in the “enthusiast” camp. Apple calls it its “most advanced personal electronics device ever.”

We’re at Apple’s campus for WWDC today and are going hands-on with Vision Pro today. Check back soon for our full impressions, and to find out if Apple’s first big entry into XR was worth the wait.

This story is breaking. Check back soon for more info.

Xron

3500$ and coming next year o.O
- num
  
  wow next year amazing apple
- Arno van Wingerde
  
  Well yes, but some people need time to save money for this thingy!
  Of course, if it can replace your PCVR setup, any number of 30″ monitors and you TV, $3500.- may not even be that much over the top… much like an iPhone can exceed $1000.- but replace your phone, agenda, camera, alarm, calculator etc.
  - wowgivemeabreak
    
    It can’t replace your PCVR setup. What alternate reality are you in where it could do that?
    - ViRGiN
      
      It already does more for me than any PCVR combined.
      Do I need PCVR to play beat saber, gorilla tag and blade and sorcery in “high definition”?
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Cutting edge stuff right there…
    - Erilis
      
      No man sky” will be available on it. I’m just saying
      - Bob
        
        Sure – to play it in 2D within the headset. Without physical controllers, how on earth would you make this work practically with all its complex systems in a complete virtual environment where you’re constantly doing things? How would you move within VR using just your hands while you’re shooting at something and opening up the in-game menu?
      - Erilis
        
        I haven’t played that game that much, but from my experience I was using the keyboard all the time anyway. I was disappointed that “milking aliens” wasn’t actual milking gesture, but digging through a bunch of menus. Controllers are an afterthought in this game. I’m sure handtracking will do
      - Bob
        
        And you think those that spend $3500 for this product is going to whip out a keyboard to play a hypothetical VisionPro VR NMS? And if they don’t use a keyboard, how are you going to get from A to B whilst doing something else getting from that A to B? Where are the haptics and feedback?
      - Julien
        
        How do people play games on the Mac, iPhone, iPad? With third party controllers like the DualSense that are compatible with iOS, iPadOS and macOS. The solution is that Apple could provide compatibility with the PSVR2 controllers and the Quest controllers.
      - Bob
        
        You’re misreading: we’re not talking about standard 2D based traditional games here. The OP is referring to a virtual reality implementation where the user is inside the game interacting with all of its elements physically with the movement of their arms and hands along with full positional tracking. From the presentation alone, no in-house solution to VR gaming has been provided other than using your own hands which from a UX point of view has its limits.
        
        Tracking with third-party controllers such as the PSVR 2 controllers is entirely possible – they are simply tracked via infrared markers so it’s just a matter of software and politics between the two companies (Apple and Sony).
      - Julien
        
        > Tracking with third-party controllers such as the PSVR 2 controllers is entirely possible – they are simply tracked via infrared markers so it’s just a matter of software and politics between the two companies (Apple and Sony).
        
        And that was exactly my point. Apple already provides a compatibility layer for third party controllers like the DualSense so to me that means they could also provide one for the PSVR2 controllers or other third party devices.
        
        As for just hand tracking, I do think some games are entirely possible with just that as input devices. You’ll just be missing any kind of physical feedback (which I think is important in XR).
        
        In any case it’s too soon to know for sure how it’ll all work. We’re still very far away from release and not even developers know the extent of the possibility of the device as of yet.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        Sure, they *could*.
        But they won’t.
        Why …?
        BECAUSE VISION PRO [VP] IS 100% AR, NOT VR ….
        There’s nothing to use a VR controller *for*
        in VP, since tnere’s no VR in VP to control ….
      - Julien
        
        VP is AR first but saying it’s 100% AR is entirely false since any environment you create can take over your entire field of view.
        I’m currently looking at the list of WWDC sessions coming this week and one of them is “Bring your Unity VR app to a fully immersive space”
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Finding a way to do something is not the same as doing something the way it was meant to be. I have an iphone, ipads, and imac. I play arcade game on my ipads. I didn’t buy either one of them for serious gaming use. I buy Apple for productivity. I use PC’s for gaming. Apple doesn’t allow the kind of GPU interchangeability you need for gaming. It is cost prohibitive to buy Apple products for gaming. You could buy the best VR headset on the market for the cost of this AR focused one.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        Correct.
        There IS no “VisionPro VR”.
        Vision Pro is *AR*, something Cook stresses so hard in the keynote.
      - Jonathan Winters III
        
        This. It’s clear and plain. Meta has little need to worry, as their main market (gaming) is in their court, for now.
      - Christian Schildwaechter
        
        Within the Apple presentation, they showed using the Vision Pro with a PS5 controller, an Apple keyboard and a trackpad, all of which should connect effortlessly via bluetooth. Everything else was eye and hand tracking. So games that work with gamepads or keyboard/mouse should work out of the box, or, if the developers care, they can implement new controls based on eye and hand tracking. Like they did on iOS without buttons and controllers, where everything now works with tapping, swiping, dragging etc.
        
        Nobody is going to buy a USD 3500 headset to play NMS, but those that buy one will very likely also use it with keyboard and mouse/trackpad. And if they then also decide to play NMS, picking up these or a gamepad shouldn’t really be an issue, nor would be the lack of haptics and feedback. If what you mostly want to do is play games, you should buy neither a Vision Pro nor a Mac. If you use your devices for productivity, only occasionally game and don’t really need the graphics only the latest Nvidia GPUs can provide, Apple devices will work just fine.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        That is a bad example. NMS still doesn’t support HOTAS in a game where you fly. I’d hate to see adding a headset with no controls to that fiasco.
    - Arno van Wingerde
      
      eh… a virtual one?
  - Firestorm185
    
    There are no controllers. This isn’t going to replace any hardcore gamer’s pcvr setup until they invent some
    - ViRGiN
      
      THERE ARE NO “HARDCORE” PCVR GAMERS!
      GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE!
      - LMAO
        
        Ignorant troll alert!
      - ViRGiN
        
        As a hardcore 1000+ hours gorilla tag competitive league player, you are wrong!
      - genki
        
        I feel like you “get it”
      - GunnyNinja
        
        I’m definitely not hardcore because I don’t know what that is..
      - CaryMGVR
        
        Sure there are!
        And they all have a worldwide meeting every year.
        In a phonebooth. lol
      - GunnyNinja
        
        You are so bitter.
    - genki
      
      But this isn’t for hardcore PCVR gamers… it’s a lead-in to something the mainstream will catch on to. They don’t care about the same things you do.
Dragon Marble

I feel like the whole thing is just a gigantic ad for Quest 3.
- Arno van Wingerde
  
  Yeah… in about the same way a presentation of the Apple Watch is an ad for a $25 smart watch from AliExpress.
  - shadow9d9
    
    I am sure you think that you are being clever, but it is so far off the mark as to be laughable.
    - ViRGiN
      
      That’s what you get from PC-steamVR oriented people who still have hard time to swallow the pill that PCVR is dead.
      - Frozenbizkit
        
        You’re still here yet peddling your nonsense?? Do you have a life to live or is this your life?
      - ViRGiN
        
        Which Quest exclusive game hurt you?
      - Frozenbizkit
        
        Pretty much none unless you like cartoony ps2 looking graphics.
      - Dawid
        
        Have you ever heard about flightsim or simracing?
      - ViRGiN
        
        Yeah and?
        They would love this headset. Especially those into that type of games. Don’t need controllers.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        because gaming on macs that can’t run them is SUCH a great idea…
      - ViRGiN
        
        And windows can’t handle those games in vr. No hardware exists to run it at consistent frame rate at the highest settings.
      - Arno van Wingerde
        
        Well, I suspect a PC around 7900 XTX or 4080 might be able to pull that off. Then pair it with a set of hi-res HDR glasses, preferably with foveated rendering and off you go… The funny thing is that most PC games are rendered in 3D, so the picture should work right away, just the interactions with objects remains to be done.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        He is not a valid source of PCVR information.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        I run MSFS quite well on my PC in VR. That’s the most demanding title I have seen. If I can run that, I can run anything, so once again, you don’t know what you are talking about. I don’t know why you insist on repeating secondhand information as gospel when you haven’t experienced it yourself.
      - ViRGiN
        
        Ah, yes, “quite well”
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Uh, yeah. What term would you like me to use? Awesome? Fantastic? Unbelievable? It’s smooth and that’s what I care about. You one of those guys that get excited about 300 fps when 60 will do?
      - genki
        
        Eeeeh, I don’t think PCVR is dead, but it is a luxury that most average consumers won’t indulge in. I have my fingers crossed that it will evolve.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Is it? Just say you don’t have a PCVR headset…
      - ViRGiN
        
        Just keep saying out loud “he hates pcvr cause he can’t afford it”, that definetly must be true.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        I have no idea what you can afford. Your comments are those of someone who obviously doesn’t know what he is talking about. PCVR is thriving given the amount of new hardware that keeps being released for it. You seem oblivious to this.
      - ViRGiN
        
        Thriving? Are you insane?
        What exactly is thriving?
        Userbase is stale AF for the past 3 years. No growth at all.
        8200 steamvr users online now on pc?
        Wow, just like 3 years ago.
  - Newlot
    
    ridiculous comment, not the same at all.
- low rez
  
  No, it actually sets up Apple’s displayless future. Aka, it won’t be long before a MacBook without actual displays are a thing, and we look back on how quant it used to be that we had these small displays attached to our computers.
  - genki
    
    Yes! That is at least Apple’s goal. I think they are content to take their time getting there though. They’ve learned quite a bit from the failures of Meta and the like.
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  Only if you expected them to release a VR headset due to a large dose of hopium, which was never going to be the case, and they have made that pretty clear for years. The whole presentation was basically a big “this is a useful device for Apple users, you can use the same apps and play the same games Apple users played so far, Quest users please go away“.
  
  I’m pretty sure they actually have a number of VR-like MR games, the most likely the collaborative multiplayer game teased by Owlchemy taking place in their Job Simulator universe. The fact that they listed all their own existing frameworks for AR carried over from iOS, but then emphasized that they cooperated with Unity to make sure all the spatial information is accessible to developers also strongly hints in a pure XR game/experience direction.
  
  Them then despite that almost completely ignoring what most of the current VR users were looking for is most likely not an accident, but a hint that they are not the target group. So it is probably less of an advertisement for Quest 3, and more of a clarification that they never intended and never will release a headset that is supposed to address the same market as the Quest.
  - Dragon Marble
    
    What market is that? People wearing headsets to do accounting on a spreadsheet? Sure, I could do something like that because I am VR nut and I already have a heavy machine on my head most of the time. But normy Apple fans are willing to do this out of pure love of their brand?
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      The market is Apple users already using their other Apple devices for productivity apps, communication and a couple of typical private use cases of mobile phones that want a device that is very portable and are willing to deal with a first generation model for a lot of money. How big that market is remains to be seen, it will also depend on how comfortable and effortless they managed to make it. The market is not typical VR users playing VR games, at best some people using VR for industry like architecture visualization looking for a hires, tetherless device.
      - Dragon Marble
        
        I am all for expanding VR/AR applications beyond gaming, but using regular 2D apps on a virtual screen is not what I had in mind.
      - Christian Schildwaechter
        
        As mentioned above, I’m pretty sure there already exist MR games that are basically VR games with hand tracking. But the fact that they didn’t show them at all, despite talking about what they did so developers could build them, clearly hints that they don’t want people to see this as a VR headset. Right now it is primarily an Apple AR headset for Apple users running existing iOS and native Apple apps.
        
        Over time it will turn out to be VR capable too, but this will always be a side aspect. Without doubt the focus will shift from 2D iOS apps to native Vision Pro apps once it is released and developers had time to create apps and games with the new hand tracking capabilities, but even then it will be about new XR games/apps, not existing ones that rely on controller input. Though you shouldn’t underestimate how useful a fully 3D capable window manager like SimulaVR can be to organize your free floating desktop even when using only freely scalable 2D apps.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        I agree.
        But VP is for XR noobs.
        Using 2D apps in AR is just to get the public used to the idea of XR.
        The really AR-y stuff will come soon after it’s been out for awhile.
      - Jonathan Winters III
        
        I believe you, simply because of your avatar.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      Good point, and it remains to be seen.
- genki
  
  Yikes, 14 thumbs up on this? This has literally nothing to do with the Quest 3 other than Meta thinking announcing the Quest 3 with very few actual specs would make a difference about how the Vision Pro would be received. Quest = escape reality and find magic in a digital world, Vision Pro = bring digital magic into your reality… they are not the same thing and Apple has been careful to make that very clear.
CaryMGVR

Right now, Zuck is bathing in champagne.
VP is solely an AR device, VR wasn’t touched.
So Quest 3 is still the HMD for me.
And don’t anybody bitch about the $3500 price.
VP will sellout everywhere on Day 1.
♥️
- num
  
  its totally vr
  - Firestorm185
    
    ESPN would like to know your location
  - bluetoothbday
    
    ITS HAS CLOSE TO ZERO VR
    - GunnyNinja
      
      Is your caps lock stuck? It has SHOWN VR in the demo, it obviously can do it.
- Nevets
  
  Watch the presentation more closely before commenting again. The headset has a crown that segues between AR and immersive (VR) mode. In any event, do you think the games will be flatscreen games?
  - Chris Meeks
    
    The only games announced were the ones already available in their game store. So flat games on a virtual screen.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      PRECISELY.
      Play 2D games on a 100-inch screen.
      N-O-T spatially immersive games.
    - Nevets
      
      You seriously think 2D gaming is where the line is drawn…on THIS headset?
      - Chris Meeks
        
        I said the only games MENTIONED at the announcement were flat games. Of COURSE it will be able to run VR games, but Apple seems to have no interest in that at the moment.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        Explain how VP can run VR apps …?
      - CaryMGVR
        
        For now, yes.
  - bluetoothbday
    
    NO, ITS HAS NO VR AT ALL THE IMMERSIVE ENVIRONMENT IS NOT VR, THAT NOT WHAT VR IS. ITS JUST AN ENVIRONMENT BUT THE ONLY CONTENT IS SCREENS DISPLAY IN MIXED REALITY.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      What he said.
    - GunnyNinja
      
      Calm down hoss. If it can show AR, it can be used for VR. There just isn’t much point in Apple developing VR software. At least not for gaming.
- xyzs
  
  I think there are more freaking out about how much that will impact their market share, and how low they will have to price the Quest Pro so that consumers consider it a viable choice even.
- Jack White
  
  Wtf is wrong with these virgins
Nevets

Looks like all the main rumours checked out precisely. Surely the most-leaked major platform announcement in Apple’s history! And what a win for Facebook – whose new headset shares many of the features, albeit in grainier form, at a small fraction of the price, and available well in advance of Apple’s effort.
- impurekind
  
  Plus, no tethered backpack and actual proper VR controllers too.
- CaryMGVR
  
  Gotta admit: the “Others See Your Eyes” thing kinda caught me offguard.
  I thought there’d be no way they’d implement such a dumb feature. lol
  But seeing it in actual practice,
  I get [and accept and approve of] what they’re going for.
  ♥️
  - genki
    
    It’s not really a dumb feature though. One of the main pain points Apple needed to solve for is the feeling of “isolation” one gets from traditional VR headsets. Being trapped inside your headset and at the mercy of an app or somewhat wonky passthrough. Previous headsets were created with a mindset of escapism… taking you out of reality and taking you somewhere else… the Zukerverse, if you will. The Vision Pro eliminates the feeling of isolation by (hopefully) effectively making the headset feel as though it is a pair of clear glasses, allows you and the people around you (without headsets) to still feel connected, and the platform focuses on keeping your “presence” tethered to your physical surroundings (aka REALITY) vs some fully immersive virtual world (that no one really wants). The success here will be that more people will begin to see wearing a headset to do content creation, productivity and entertainment as a viable option, rather than going to the convenience and ease of a traditional screen-based interface.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      Hey idiot,
      I JUST SAID IT TURNS OUT IT ISN’T A DUMB FEATURE AFTER ALL
      - genki
        
        oh wow, i was actually trying to agree with you, just not calling it a dumb feature. i haven’t refreshed, so maybe i missed that part? geez, you’re sure a mean one. wasn’t expecting to feel kind of hurt engaging here, but thanks for reminding me that people can be awful for no reason. and thanks for making me regret replying to you. out of here. have a good one or something.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Easy turbo…
- CaryMGVR
  
  Absolutely.
  Meta could push out a Quest that uses only passthrough.
  And sell it a a farrrr lower price, but almost just as good as VP.
  Call it: “QuestAR”, or somesuch.
  - Doctor Bambi
    
    They’d need to be able to integrate with something like the Google Play store to really build out that use case.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      Why?? lol
      Just have a AR section in the regular Quest Shoppe.
      - Doctor Bambi
        
        Seems to me a big draw of their experience here is running any iOS or iPad app in any layout configuration. They gon need apps to compete. If you can’t pull up Discord and Spotify while you’re fortnightin’ that could be a major disadvantage.
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  Facebook – whose new headset shares many of the features
  
  Have we been watching the same presentation? Their main emphasis was on integration with their existing platforms, allowing Vision Pro users to use hundreds of iOS apps on the device itself and use it as a 4K display for a Mac, integrate it with their messaging platform incl. life like avatars, addressing input with their established Siri speech recognition and support for their keyboards and trackpads. So basically if you use your iPad or Mac as a productivity tool, you can do the same and more with the Vision Pro, with everything freely configurable in 3D space.
  
  Meta has so far managed to let you run two side loaded Android apps in parallel, as long as you have enough RAM, in a fixed three screen configuration, and just recently they managed to go from input via laser pointer to actually allowing to touch buttons. Apple started and remained for a long time with what they have done to make a hand tracking based user interface actually usable. The Quest interface is more a case of “it somehow works and only completely confuses about half the users”, and nobody seriously considers it to be good. The Quest is currently great for gaming/streaming/game streaming, and not much else. The biggest overlap between Quest and Vision Pro in the presentation was virtual cinema, other than that they actively avoided VR games and went for use cases the current Quest isn’t really usable for.
  
  And hardware wise the number of sensors with multiple times the processing power of what the Quest 3 will offer, the modularized facial interface and head strap that you pick matching to your face and head shape in an Apple store, the resolution, the micro OLED displays and more are also not really comparable. Yes, the Quest 3 will get a depth sensor, but the Vision Pro has two of them for hand tracking plus an extra Lidar sensor for room tracking.
  - Nevets
    
    When did I say the headsets were anywhere near equivalent? I went out of my way to highlight that they are different in fidelity.
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      You didn’t say equivalent, you said
      
      whose new headset shares many of the features,
      
      and outside the fact that both have displays, processors, RAM and flash (like pretty much all mobile devices) and lenses (like all XR devices), the really interesting features are very different.
      - Dragon Marble
        
        Same features just different use cases. And in my view Apple is wasting those features on utterly uninspiring, 2D use cases.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        This is just to get the general public used to the idea
        of “computer glasses” in the first place.
        The *real* AR-y stuff comes later.
      - genki
        
        you’re totally correct. (mean) but correct.
  - Newlot
    
    Do you have an idea how Apple managed to pack an M2 and a new R1 processor into this headset. The M2 is obviously a desktop processor, found in Macbook Air’s while Meta only manages to pack a Qualcomm smartphone processor into their devices. From a TFLOPS perspective the M2 will be about 50% more powerful than the XR Gen 2. Do you think in the future Meta and Qualcomm’s partnership will extend to creating bigger desktop chips (M2) to put into Meta’s headsets?
    - Arno van Wingerde
      
      Is it only 50% more powerful? I guess Apple’s foveated rendering most be really good then, to show a picture that clear at that resolution. Of course, we have just seen marketing material, but I really do not want to work on a 2D screen on my Quest2.
      - Christian Schildwaechter
        
        It depends a lot on which M2 they use, as they differ significantly regarding the number of GPU cores, from 8CU at the entry level M2 to 38CU in the top single chip M2 Max, with pretty much linear performance scaling. Mobile GPUs have become rather powerful, though still no match for desktop GPUs.
        
        The XR2 Gen 1 in Quest 2 has about 1/12th the speed of a GTX 1060 in synthetic benchmarks, so the XR2 Gen 2 should be at about 1/6th. The M1 Pro and Max where the first iGPUs capable of keeping up with desktop GPUs, mostly keeping up or beating an RTX 3060, depending on application. But as mentioned there is a performance factor of five within the different M1/M2 versions, and AFAIK we don’t know yet how fast it will be. Assuming that the “50% more powerful” is in comparison to the GPU in the basic M2 Macbook Air, this could go up to “650% more powerful” with a M2 Max, though this would probably burn a hole into your forehead.
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      Integrating any SoC is mostly a question of power consumption and head dispensation. The M1 Macbook Air had a significantly lower sustained top performance than the same chip in the Macbook Pro with active cooling, as the Air was forced to throttle down the SoC due to heat all the time. So the main difference will be advanced cooling.
      
      Apple said the whole body of the Vision Pro is machined from a custom Aluminium alloy, so most likely the whole case is basically one large heat sink designed for optimal air flow, required because M2+R1 will consume significantly more power than an XR2. Which is also why they need a rather hefty external battery and still only get two hours of use out of it, though you can easily hotswap them for another (probably not cheap) battery pack thanks to a smaller integrated battery with enough juice for a couple of minutes. Or run it permanently tethered.
      
      Qualcomm most certainly wants an M2 desktop class SoC, whether they will manage to build one that comes close to the M2 in time remains to be seen. It is certainly possible, as the Mediatek Dimensity 9000 has proven, beating the SD8 Gen 1 and almost reaching M1 performance levels. And you can always use a faster, more power hungry chip, like the x86 based Hololens, by adding more battery and cooling. AMD has been making quite some progress with lowering the power requirements of their APUs as seen in the Steam Deck, and the Valve Deckard will almost certainly be x86 based to run the existing Steam VR library. ARM has some architecture advantages that allow them to run much more power efficient in low power states, which helps tremendously in applications like typical mobile phones with short power bursts and then long stretches of lower activity. The advantage over x86 is much smaller in applications like VR, where CPU and GPU are very active pretty much all the time.
    - GunnyNinja
      
      “The M2 is obviously a desktop processor, found in Macbook”. I think you are contradicting yourself, while answering your own question. Laptops are mobile devices.
      - Newlot
        
        Thats just semantics. The Macbook is a laptop that sits on top of a desk. The M2 chip is also found inside of Ipads but not Iphones. This is different than thr Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, that Meta’s headsets are based on, its a smartphone chip.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        It’s a mobile chip until someone puts it in a desktop computer.
- bluetoothbday
  
  expect for one major thing, it’s not a vr headset whatsoever, its a pure mixed reality headset.
  - Nevets
    
    it’s not a vr headset whatsoever
    
    Except until you rotate the crown. Apart from that, I see what you mean.
  - Christian Schildwaechter
    
    Which is exactly what all the rumors said, only that Apple says it is an AR headset, they didn’t mention MR. The idea that it might be a VR headset didn’t come from leaks or rumors, and most certainly not from Apple, who only ever talked about AR, but from VR users looking for a high end standalone device.
- Jonathan Winters III
  
  Not to mention the near complete lack of VR gaming on the Apple device. It’s being marketed as a computer – for browsing, chatting/video calls, photos, occasional gaming. Meta for the win as far as gaming goes.
οκ

2 hours of power and no controllers… What a let down. Basically they sell a TV for 3.500$.
- impurekind
  
  2 hours of [tethered to a battery pack you have to carry in your pocket] power.
  
  There, I fixed that part for you. :-o
  - ViRGiN
    
    That’s so awful! Let me 3D print a strap adapter, attach cheap powerbank, counterweight, and call it all day comfort for quarter of the price!
- CaryMGVR
  
  A TV like no other.
  Plus, it costs MUCH LESS than a SOTA 4KTV.
  Besides, can a 4KTV do all the multiple display & compute stuff …??
  ♥️
  - ViRGiN
    
    Who buys super expensive 4K TVs? Perhaps people sorting from highest to lowest price on Amazon.
    
    An excellent ~50 inch 4K TV is at about $1000 price range today.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      I looked at a SONY 80-inch 4KTV the other day
      that’s coming out later in the year.
      $4000+, mein freund ….
      - ViRGiN
        
        That’s not standard family oriented, regular apartment sized TV.
      - CaryMGVR
        
        But a “standard family oriented, regular apartment sized TV.” isn’t what I’m after.
      - Cless
        
        But that is the market they are aiming at, not the guy that saves up to buy a $1000 HMD, but someone that has so much disposable income… they just don’t mind the price.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Clearly this guy has the opposite of disposable income. He is not investing in high end gear. In fact I have a 35″ CRT tv in my basement I will give him for free. I can’t even throw it away. The dump won’t take it.
      - Cless
        
        No man, you are doing it wrong! Its not an “old 35” CRT basement TV”… you gotta sell it as “MASSIVE 35″ CRT Oldschool gaming TV” !!
xyzs

That was next level,
They even seem to nail user experience better on day one, than Meta after years and years of refinement…

Now, I would love to know:
-how much it weights,
-if it’s compatible with OpenXR standard (their bs collaboration with Unity frightens me)
-what is the FOV and clarity

but $3500, damn, they’re really not shy.
- Doctor Bambi
  
  Even if it did support OpenXR, it’s an entirely different input model so I don’t know how developers are going to go about this. Apple sure isn’t rolling out the red carpet for VR gaming with this headset.
  - xyzs
    
    Well, nothing prevents a collaboration to make compatible vr gamepads.
    - Doctor Bambi
      
      Nothing’s impossible, but I’m not holding my breath. They went as far as to say VR controllers were ‘awkward’ during the conference so… yeah, not a vote of confidence there. Hopefully they leave the door open though cause damn, it’s a really interesting headset.
    - Arno van Wingerde
      
      Indeed, but not having one out of the box means that games developers do not know what set-up they are developing for – this is precisely what makes consoles so attractive.
  - Christian Schildwaechter
    
    Apple is actually pretty standard compliant. They usually deviate only when the standards are trailing behind proprietary interfaces, like it was the case with OpenGL trailing behind DX11. Apple then came up with Metal, a low end interface similar to AMD’s Mantle API, which later was turned into Vulkan. People decry Apple for not going for the cross platform Vulkan, but they forget that Vulkan wasn’t even started until after Metal was already released. And for some reason they forget that Microsoft did the same with DX12.
    
    When a sufficient standard exist, Apple usually goes for it. When it doesn’t, they often participate in creating one, similar to them first supporting WebGL1, then shunning WebGL2 and pushing for WebGPU, which now has become a much more versatile and performant solution supported by all main browsers. OpenXR is actually a good specification, though still lacking, e.g. eye tracking and hand tracking isn’t formalized yet and requires vendor specific extensions. But it would be useful enough for Apple to support it, esp. since they can add anything missing themselves without breaking the standard. Unity has also switched all their XR interfaces to OpenXR, only putting their own interface abstraction on top to make it more Unity like. So I’d say there is a good chance that the Vision Pro will support OpenXR.
- Julie
  
  Over 600g
  Not OpenXR compatible
  FOV is 115 at the widest, <100 for users with an IPD over 69mm
  - xyzs
    
    Thanks Julie.
    Then I will wait for Vision 2 pro or see what competition brings :)
    - ViRGiN
      
      As every non-developer should be.
      This is a pro devkit, not a pro product.
  - CaryMGVR
    
    In case you’re wondering: 600g = 1 pound 5 ounces.
    Quest 2 is 500g.
    - Andrew Jakobs
      
      But the quest 2 includes the battery.
  - Bob
    
    Where did you get this information from? Do you have a source? And a link to that source?
- ViRGiN
  
  Brave to say about nailing user experience without ever using one
- Andrew Jakobs
  
  Next level? Haven’t really seen anything in the promovideo which I haven’t seen in promovideo’s by Meta or Pico 4. And comparing something which had years to improve privately, based on a promo video, isn’t really fair, especially for a headset that is 7 times the price of the Meta Quest 3. AND has an annoying batterycable running down your side, which ofcourse isn’t clear if the cable is USB-c or yet another crappy proprietairy cable, otherwise I’ll bet third party like bobovr or kiwi will provide a good headstrap with (hotswappable) batteries.
  - Shy Guy
    
    The battery cable seemed to have a round magnetic connector at the headset end, so I’d say fairly certainly proprietary.
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      Apple changed their magsafe connectors multiple times, so they are even proprietary between different generations of Apple computers. I will still take a proprietary magnetic connector over USB-C for any cable that might be accidentally pulled out, and I bought several 3rd party magnetic micro-USB and USB-C adapters for use with the Oculus Go and Quest. And it beats drilling wholes into your old 3rd party headstrap to allow to use it with the Quest 3 that for some reason places the USB-C port on the connection the strap.
  - Arno van Wingerde
    
    isn’t that a bit like saying your grandma’s 30 year old color TV can show the same movies as a current top-of-the-line TV? I agree that the demo’s may be edited to show a perfect picture, but here’s hoping that it actually looks like that. I would not be willing to read this article on my Quest2: I could maybe make out the text, but it surely would not make make for relaxed reading. If the AVP can that that is a massive step forward. So, better wait until the reviews come in, and especially see for yourself when these things come to an Apple store near you.
    - GunnyNinja
      
      No, it’s like saying Apple is late to the party, and they brought something that someone else already put on the table. Adding peanuts to your potato salad isn’t going to impress people who don’t like peanuts or potato salad. AR is useless for gaming, and most VR enthusiasts invest in it for that purpose.
Doctor Bambi

I gotta say I thought the outer screen showing your eyes would be super weird, it doesn’t seem too bad, it’s nice that people outside the headset have a better way to tell if you’re engaging with them or in the middle of something.

Other thing I thought was pretty cool is being able to take 3D photos straight from the headset, I carry around the old Lenovo Mirage Camera to capture things in 3D and it makes so much sense to just have that be baked into the headset with the cameras already on board.
- bluetoothbday
  
  its so creepy
- Arno van Wingerde
  
  Apple really wants to emphasize that putting the glasses on does not cut you off from the real world, just allows extra stuff to be projected on top of that world to make you more productive. I would be convinced if Apple employees start using that device for their own work as well.
Christian Schildwaechter

Some side bits:

– It comes with two depth sensors and a LIDAR sensor, the first two seemingly for hand tracking, the second for long distance/room.
– As far as I heard they actively avoided ever mentioning VR or MR, only talking about AR, though in effect they mostly showed MR.
– Emphasis for productivity was mostly on using existing iOS apps and utilizing the Vision Pro as a private, external Mac display, probably because there aren’t any native 3rd party apps ready yet. Interesting to see Microsoft having Office optimized for Vision Pro. Using cloud based Microsoft 365 in a browser was one of the (rather lame) attempts by Meta to sell the Quest Pro as an office tool, but we never heard about that cooperation after the initial presentation. Apple sort of hit on that by pointing out that you need the high resolution to actually make productivity apps work.
– When news about Meta having a research project also showing the wearers eyes to others in the room were published some time ago, the reactions were mostly negative, but it seems that Apple managed to make it look not too horrible. And I think it will actually help with making it more acceptable to wear in front of others.
– Using the front made completely out of glass also as a lenses for cameras and sensors is quite impressive.
– They showed pretty much no VR apps, only hinted that they existed and that they had partnered with a lot of existing developers.
– Mentioning that they worked closely with Unity, which is the base for the vast majority of current VR apps, and then not showing a single game based on it was quite … interesting. It looked like they tried to deliberately distance themselves from existing headsets/Quest with a gaming focus, driving the message that this is foremost a device targeting existing Apple iOS/MacOS users that will integrate seamlessly into their existing app ecosystem. I’m pretty sure they will show more VR like games (with hand tracking) once the press has swallowed that this is not a Quest Pro Deluxe.
– I am astonished that they didn’t mention anything about the target group. They showed a number of business applications, but most of the use cases were for private usage, with a device that is most certainly not targeting the average iPhone buyer at USD 3500. According to Brad Lynch the displays come from Sony, the yield is/was horrible and Sony may not be able to provide more than 250,000 this year, so this can only be a niche device by Apple standards. Strange that they presented it just like a consumer device, but maybe they expect that the price will automatically restrict it to professionals and early adopters.
– They will present more detailed information in the coming platform specific presentations.
- XRC
  
  Glass front an “interesting” choice.
  
  Difficult to manufacture, heavy, requires distortion correction on cameras and vulnerable to impact damage (there was concern mentioned about broken glass and safety concerns for user).
  - Christian Schildwaechter
    
    That indeed seemed to be a strange (and expensive) choice, though special glass like Corning Gorilla Glass is very robust. Interestingly Corning had already shut down the production of Gorilla glass due to lack of interest from the industry, when Apple approached them to use it for the first iPhone. Turned out to be quite a great business opportunity for Corning.
    
    I first thought Apple may have picked the glass for additional structural support, but it now seems that the display of the users eyes is actually view angle dependent, so different people looking at the headset from the outside will all see the eyes looking in the right direction. This is achieved with lenticular lenses in front of the display, and it is possible that these lenses are actually cut into the whole front glass. Which would make it even more complex and expensive, but also even more impressive.
- sfmike
  
  Users are still not going to be OK with wearing something on their head that will muss their hair so even with the eye passthrough effect it will still be a hard sell. People still complain vigorously about having to wear light 3D glasses at a movie so an HMD is still poison with the fashionistas out there.
wowgivemeabreak

The headset seems lame given the price and its intended purpose but I expect it’ll sell well because there’s sadly a group of people that just eat up all things Apple. Apple could unveil an actual pile of dog crap and hype it up in the presentation and people would flock to it. They’re the kings at gaslighting, just as they did today by acting like they invented a new tech/product while giving it some new name (spatial computer!) when they did not.

I’m not an “Apple hater” as I have 2 Apple devices that I quite enjoy but damn, this company is such an abomination when it comes to their gaslighting.

I will say that the 3d camera thing they mentioned sounded pretty cool. That’s pretty much the only thing they talked about that impressed me.

Also have to laugh at the 2 hour battery life despite the fact they separated the battery. Can’t wait for the biased tech media to not call them out for that despite them calling out every other standalone headset for the same battery life, even when those other headsets don’t use external batteries and don’t cost 3.5k+.
- Shy Guy
  
  The 3D camera sounded nice, but their whole schtick of “relive your most special moments” seemed odd to me, since your kids likely wouldn’t want daddy looking like Robocop at their birthday party in the first place.
  
  The high res displays sound good. Finally a display that can come close to emulating high res monitors without giving you eyestrain. If the displays are square they should be approximately 3400×3400 per eye to match their total pixel count of 23M. Since that’s across your whole FoV, then it’s still not going to be close to a real 4K monitor on your desk.
  
  If Apple can make it usable to do productive work in, it will probably sell really well.
  
  I expect Apple want to sell you extra batteries. They’ll probably sell a bigger one too, for $$$ of course.
- ViRGiN
  
  What sad is that people will buy anything Valve.
  - GunnyNinja
    
    https://media4.giphy.com/media/lkdH8FmImcGoylv3t3/giphy-downsized-small.mp4
- Kfir Even
  
  Really? the “3d camera thing” is the only thing that impressed you? have we watched the same thing?
Micha Colory Krebs

What about a creativ use for making VR Art in VR?
What about the things that I can do with a Vive or the Quest, by using TiltBrush, the ColoryVR/Engine or Medium?
For me, beeing creativ in a virtual World, is the main reason of using VR….
- gothicvillas
  
  Apple users dont tend to be creative perhaps
  - Micha Colory Krebs
    
    Back in the old days, Apple used to be the “Holy Grail” of digital creatives…times are changing….
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  They haven’t shown any real use of the XR capabilities yet, the focus was mostly on things existing Apple users already do in their daily lives that can now be used in the Vision Pro too. The presentation wasn’t for existing VR users, but for existing Apple users. I’d fully expect them to follow this up with more of what we expect the device to be capable of, and they already at least hinted that 3rd party developers will get access to all the necessary APIs. Also creative apps have always been one of Apple’s strength, I wouldn’t expect it to be different with the Vision Pro. And there are already a number of people fantasizing about using the just released 2D iPad versions of Logic Pro and Final Cut for editing on a huge virtual screen while traveling with a Vision Pro.
  
  So I’d suggest some patience, let Apple first get developers onboard and then gradually show what else the device can deliver. It will not hit the market for more than half a year, and for most people this will be still new ground, so easing them in with known, “boring” 2D apps makes at least some sense. Remember, even among gamers, more than 95% never got into VR, the percentage in the general public is even worse.
Firestorm185

Apple made two major mistakes:

No optional hand controllers for VR gaming

Hand tracking shown is laser pointer-esque, not direct touch. Can’t believe Rift CV1 had such a golden standard direct touch user interface that NOT EVEN APPLE could replicate. I hate laser pointers!
- Foreign Devil
  
  I’m pretty sure it is capable of full hand tracking but they specifically built it to pick up tiny motions from your hand resting on your lab or a table because you will tire out waving your hands in the air in front of your face after an hour.
  - CaryMGVR
    
    Wow, you can last a whole hour …?? lol
    After a few minutes, the novelty of the gimmick wears-off.
    - ViRGiN
      
      Novelty of what?
      Hand tracking is awesome and is barely starting.
      It’s the touchscreen for VR. It’s good for everything but traditional gaming.
- GunnyNinja
  
  Gaming is not Apple’s focus. Ever.
  - Christian Schildwaechter
    
    Not entirely true. Apple generates the third highest revenue in gaming after Tencent and Sony, and when looking at profit from gaming, they make more than Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Activision combined. Their success in gaming may have started sort of accidentally, but they are very aware of it, and changes to their store policies intended to reduce the amount of revenue share developers have to pay explicitly excluded games as their cash cow.
    
    They never present gaming as the main focus, but this matches with how people use their phones, which is less than 10% for gaming. They still support developers creating games, and given the incredible amount of money they make from it, this will most certainly continue, and become true for the Vision Pro too, once they have covered the 90% of typical non-gaming usage.
    - GunnyNinja
      
      Nothing you said refutes what I said. People don’t buy Apple products for gaming. The fact that you even mention phones is all we need as proof.
    - GunnyNinja
      
      Nothing you said refutes what I said. People don’t buy Apple products for gaming. The fact that you mentioned phones is proof enough. This is a VR forum and no serious VR usage involves phones.
      - Christian Schildwaechter
        
        Your edit seems to have resulted in a double post. And I am sorry to inform you that the Vision Pro will use an M2 SoC that is used in actual computers from laptop to workstation class, while all Meta HMDs are using Qualcomm XR2 SoCs, based on the SD865 and SD8 Gen2 chips exclusively “involved” in making mobile phones.
        
        I’d suggest avoiding any discussion about what “serious VR” or “actual gaming” is, because inevitable the argument will shift to mobile phone technology, and mobile will always win due to numbers and economies of scale. The only way to avoid that is by disqualifying it from the start (as you tried), but that isn’t winning, that is cheating and being a sore loser.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        We were talking about Apple and Gaming. Now if you insist on being pedantic, checkers is gaming
      - GunnyNinja
        
        I don’t know what is going on with Disqus. I posted again, because it wasn’t showing up on the Road to VR page. I’m responding on DIsqus’ page not RoadtoVR.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        But in any case, you are replying as if I said no one games with Apple devices. I think that is a far cry from what I said.
impurekind

So, who’s drinking the Kool-Aid?
- CaryMGVR
  
  Mein cup runneth over ….
  Not an AR guy one single solitary bit.
  I think AR is just a gimmicky subset of virtual reality.
  But this is Apple changing personal computing paradigms AGAIN.
  VP is an extremely important product.
  ♥️
Octogod

Who knew that the Xerox PARC for Reality Pro was the Meta Quest?
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  PARC stands for Palo Alto Research Center, so it is more like Meta Reality Labs. You are probably referring to the advanced Xerox Alto workstations developed at PARC, featuring GUIs, mice, OOP, Ethernet, collaborative working etc. they demonstrated to Steve Jobs, who then started the Lisa and later switched the existing Mac project from what was basically an advanced text processing system to the first GUI driven PC as we know it today. (And payed Xerox USD 100mn in Apple stock for the rights to use their tech.)
  
  So it would be more the Meta Quest being to the Apple Vision Pro like the Xerox Alto from 1973 to the Apple Lisa/Macintosh from 1983/1984, a device that delivered most of the functions first, but was later overtaken by a much more popular Apple model. Though the comparison doesn’t work that well, as the Alto was a USD 32K machine in 1973, more than USD 130K today, and much more powerful than the first Mac, while the Quest is both a lot cheaper and a lot less powerful than the Vision Pro.
  
  A more direct comparison would be the Varjo XR3, which started as a USD 12K PCVR HMD and sold only to industry, with the lower resolution Varjo Aero at only around USD 2000 also selling to enthusiasts. The XR3 features a lot of what the Vision Pro can do, incl. very advanced, high resolution passthrough and AR functionality, and according to rumors Apple was the main or at least one of the main customers for the XR3, using it to develop software and content for the Vision Pro long before their own prototypes were ready.
  - Octogod
    
    Apple was inspired by Xerox. Apple was inspired by Meta.
    
    Cost has no relevance to a UX discussion.
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      Xerox was inspired by Douglas Engelbart’s mind-boggling “Mother of all demos” that introduced GUIs, mice, networking, hypertext, networking, video conferencing and more in 1968, and a lot of people who worked for Engelbart ended up as PARC. Meta was inspired by VPL Research, who created the first commercial virtual reality headsets and data gloves in the 1980s, which in turn were inspired by Ivan Sutherland’s “Sword of Damocles” 6DoF VR HMD, using hires b/w cathode tubes developed for helicopter targeting systems, suspended from the ceiling, barely being able to render a wireframe cube due to computers in 1966 lacking power.
      
      And a lot of the technology developed by Evans & Sutherland for military simulators drove graphic cards developments, with employees of Evan & Sutherland founding Silicon Graphics, which drove the first generation of VR hardware, and employees of Silicon Graphics founding ATI, which developed the Adreno GPUs used in all Quest HMD. Adreno is an anagram of Radeon. Military VR applications like those from Evans & Sutherland payed for most of the development of all the (broken) VR headsets that Palmer Luckey had bought and disassembled when trying to create a PC VR HMD like others in the MTBS3D community around 2012, while working part-time at USC Mixed Reality Lab, where the team around Mark Bolas had created some of the earliest VR based on mobile technology, including a cardboard like device called FOV2Go for the iPhone 4, preceding Google Cardboard by several years.
      
      Trying to construct a history where someone invented something first and others just copied it is usually futile. Apple computers where used for VR content creation long before Facebook/Meta existed. And if you ask people who invented flight, you’ll get dozens of different answers from different countries, all valid and depending on slightly differing definitions of flight. And I’m pretty sure “cost has no relevance to a UX discussion” is pretty much the opposite of what most people in the last two days have said regarding the AVP, where the cost for this new type of interface is the one of the most discussed topic.
low rez

Most revealing part of the entire event was that Apple made absolutely no mention of VR.
- ViRGiN
  
  Anyone can do VR, not everyone can do AR.
  VR will come after devs get their hands on.
  You can blockout the real world, so there is VR.
- Arthur
  
  They never signaled an interest in VR at any point before this. Nothing at all revealed about it not being mentioned here.
  - CaryMGVR
    
    Wrong.
    Remember the WWDC when xLAB went onstage …?
    - Arthur
      
      Not getting a single result about this on google… But if I’m wrong about them not *signalling* wanting to do VR stuff before, I still think it wasn’t revealing of anything for them not to mention now. I’ve only heard Cook speak negatively about VR and how isolating it was. Maybe I did miss something though…
      
      *edited in
  - Arno van Wingerde
    
    I guess Apple thinks that closing yourself off of the world is a no-go and wanted to suggest that using this thing can actually be social. Funny thing is that any commuter train will show lots of people fully closed of their phones and earplugs… The price level makes it too expensive as a gaming device and not enough users makes it unattractive to develop games for it. So perhaps the Pro angle is the way in and a later version could be cheaper and more consumer/games oriented.
- bluetoothbday
  
  same there is literally 0 vr side to this headset
ViRGiN

NO DISPLAYPORT, NO STEAMVR = NO BUY!11111
ViRGiN

Vision compatibible controllers will come out exactly an eternity before dickard is a thing.
- GunnyNinja
  
  I see no useful reason to continue reading your drivel.
ViRGiN

It does suck.
FXTrader

From the comments here, it seems like I was the only one who was blown away by how good this device is lol.

And I want one, but I can’t afford it :( I want it for work, productivity and entertainment, exactly what they are targeting. For gaming, Quest 3 probably would be a better option.

Can’t find any information about FOV. Rumors said it will be about 120. Hopefully it’s true.
- CaryMGVR
  
  You can afford it.
  Buy it in installments: Apple allows this expressly for devices like VP.
- GunnyNinja
  
  AR is a gimmick. I can watch a movie on a 100′ screen with an Oculus Go.
Chris Meeks

Bloomberg: $500 PSVR2″: “Sounds expensive!”
$3500 Vision Pro: ” ¯_(ツ)_/¯”
ViRGiN

I’m expecting a full blown Valve response.
Something like SteamVR fest, but with more demos of old games that nobody cares about.
Also, huge price cuts, games as low at 22 cents, cause that’s what really drives PCVR people to use the platform again.
Plenty of developers who haven’t touched their games since 2016 made a little bank recently due to selling for nothing.
- CaryMGVR
  
  Actually, I was hoping Valve would drop a Deckard tease
  this morning just before the keynote starts …. lol
  - ViRGiN
    
    I bet you have that feeling every morning
Andrew Jakobs

It’s not the battery that bothers, it’s the cable, and I’m speaking from experience with the HTC Vive Pro/wireless module combo. The cable running down your side gets really annoying, and looking at the promovideo they put it beside then when sitting on the couch, first time you move you’ll sit on top of it or it slides to the back or off the couch with a jerk to the headset.
- papi
  
  still better than carrying extra 150gr on your head
  - Andrew Jakobs
    
    Nope. The headset itself is 600g compared to the 500g of the quest 2, so without tge battery it’s even 100g heavier as the Quest 2 with battery, and the Quest 3 is said to be even much lighter.
- CaryMGVR
  
  I use a big Anker batt for my Quest 2 all the time.
  Shove the batt in my back pocket, don’t even know it’s there.
  
  And I don’t know what weird contortionist’s act you’re doing,
  but I NEVER “have a problem” with the cable.
Foreign Devil

I don’t own any Apple products but I am impressed by how much technology they packed into that thing and how cohesive it all looks. Will wait for the hands on demos though. Do you need to own an iphone to use it? If not it seems to be a replacement for a mac computer and multiple displays and ear pods.. which would probably altogether come out almost to the same price. Anyways glad it will push the tech forward and other will imitate it as much as they can (and likely be sued by Apple for copyright infringement unless of course they are based in China).
- CaryMGVR
  
  Nope, no iPhone needed: 100% AIO.
  - Shy Guy
    
    Are you sure? It looked like you needed an iPhone to set up the Facetime 3D avatar of yourself.
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      No, this was done by looking at the front of the Vision Pro and generating a scan of your face with the two depth sensors plus cameras located there. An iPhone might be necessary for setup nonetheless, and with the tight integration with existing iOS apps I’d say it is safe to assume that Apple expect Vision Pro buyers to already own iPhones and/or iPads.
    - CaryMGVR
      
      Yes, I’m sure.
      But you aren’t.
      The process you describe is done by looking at VP’s front cameras & sensors.
      - ViRGiN
        
        Yet I haven’t seen a single “but no legs” memes.
        But it’s pretty genius and obvious now.
        I thought Meta would have to setup ‘scanning booths’ to capture the ‘persona’, but I guess in few years time this can be done by someone else scanning you in a t-pose or something by holding the headset.
Erilis

So you think we can wear this while driving?
At least there’s no more “set up boundries”. Boundries seemed superfluous even on the Psvr2
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  Technically yes. Varjo showed the use of their XR-3 AR headset (now 2x the price of the Vision Pro, started at 4x the price) within a driving car to test not yet existing dashboard interfaces. Though AFAIK this was not on a public road and not recommended outside exactly that use case of prototyping the vehicle and testing how well the design works in actual usage.
  
  Apple emphasized that the integrated image processor allows for a industry-record low 12ms latency for passthrough, which should make it better suited for driving in actual traffic than the XR-3, though the XR-3 should still beat it regarding resolution at the center due to its unique combination of a 70PPD micro display with a regular 30PPD for the periphery. The Apple HMD should be around 40PPD, so car designers will probably stick to the XR-3 and dedicated test courses.
- CaryMGVR
  
  No.
  VP is the very definition of “distracted driving”. lol
Jetson

You clearly seems to know in how many ways VR games can be played!
- CaryMGVR
  
  I do, but that’s beside the point.
- GunnyNinja
  
  Blocking that clown just made my day better.
CaryMGVR

A teensy bit of context is needed, I think …. lol

There more than a few comments here expressing “disappointment” in VP.
But you hafta remember: this device IS NOT FOR US.
You and I know full well what VR, AR & MR is.

VP is for Johnny Bestbuycustomer.
That is: a not-very-tech-savvy individual to whom Facetime represents either
the height of Mankind’s technological achievemet or is the work of the Devil.

So YOU might be “disappointed” in VP.
But the general public had it’s mind blown this afternoon, $3500 be darned.
- ViRGiN
  
  Overall the presentation wasn’t jawdropping – a bunch of cinema experiences and mac screen mirroring. Basically a 4K Quest Pro++.
  If it was released today, I would buy it, as long as I can return it if not happy with it.
  But as it launches early next year, I expect more content to be shown throughout the months.
  I’ll see what they achieve by then.
  
  As a Windows user, there is no productivity here without Windows support, just entertainment.
Bob

The form factor of the actual visor itself is quite impressive. The amount of technology they crammed into that single visor alone is clearly nothing to scoff at. Unfortunately, I’m not too impressed with the bulk of that facial interface; to an extent it works against the overall sleek design of the device as a whole and makes it appear bulkier than it actually is.

I’m sure the final product will be very comfortable and ergonomic however, personally speaking, if the purpose of the device is to not isolate you from your surrounding environment than having a full facial interface which appears to completely embrace the face is somewhat counter-intuitive to that idea. Perhaps they should have gone the Quest Pro route, and ditch a full facial interface altogether or go for something half the size of the one shown and attempt to compensate elsewhere.

When it comes to the look and the design of an XR product, first impressions are everything. To gain mass market appeal, the device must not look bulky or “shoebox”-like but unfortunately the device, at first glance to the average joe, is clearly sticking with that trend.
Nevets

When you eventually buy the headset (after saving enough pocket money) you will see for yourself that you can enter spatially immersive environments by rotating the crown. If you think Apple is treating this headset like a 2D screen player, then you need your head seeing to.
- GunnyNinja
  
  As has been said before, VR has more than just gaming use. If Apple decides to implement VR, it will likely be productivity focused. Playing 2d games on a virtual flat screen is something every VR headset can do. Even 3dof ones.
Arthur

Very cool device. Fading in people approaching you is definitely a cool feature. The outward facing screen came out well too. HDR was mentioned, very interested in what the display brightness is. Would consider buying one if I was already in Apple’s ecosystem or had the money.
Dark Aura

This is exactly what people said would happen by 2025 when the Quest 2 was super successful, I really doubt that’s going to happen any time soon.

I also doubt Apple will hinge anything on it’s “Hyper rich dude” device until they are at least as affordable as a Quest, something I don’t even think Apple Engineers are capable of.
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  Without doubt they will try to reduce the price, and a second generation at half the price was already rumored about before the first generation launched. Some of the cost reduction will come all by itself. Currently the displays use dual layer white OLEDs to reach the required brightness, and these come with a low yield. And Apple initially build hundreds of Vision Pro per month by hand, only 20% of which then passed the quality test to be usable as development devices. So part of the price reduction will come from them gaining production experience and no longer having to throw out significant parts of the production.
  
  But I doubt it will ever become as affordable as a Quest. The iPhone 14 Pro starts at USD 999, and a fully equipped 1TB iPhone 14 Pro Max will cost you USD 1599. Apple pretty much sticks to high end with high end prices, and they make heaps of money on that because people are willing to pay these prices. So it isn’t likely that they will change that strategy with the Vision Pro, or that we will see any Apple HMDs below USD 1000 within the current decade.
  - Arno van Wingerde
    
    It actually does not need to be as heap as the Quest: after all this thing comes with a fairly powerful PC. A better comparison might be a PVCR setup, at around $2500.- or a PS5+PSVR2 at $1200.-
    And for that kind of money Apple’s price does not seem al that ridiculous anymore. Of course, a PC can be used for other stuff as well, but I think you would have a hard time matching the display quality of this little beauty. Let’s see the reviews when they come in and more specific applications than floating 2D screens.
- CaryMGVR
  
  You understand that once a device has been revealed to the public,
  it’s successor is well under way to being worked on, right ….?
Nevets

Reflecting on this reveal, I’m increasingly getting the sense that the future of mixed reality is now safely in hand. Apple’s confident mastery of familiar-but-new nomenclature (“spatial computing”, “EyeSight”) give the sense of a product category whose high price will only reflect its refinement, making it a covetable item once it drops close to the price of a top-tier iPhone. Not a guaranteed future for VR or AR, but a solid new source of support.

I haven’t bought an Apple product since the iPhone 3GS, and I’ll look forward to Quest 3 as an hors d’euvre. But more likely than not I’ll consider an Apple MR device once the price is right.
- CaryMGVR
  
  Beautifully said, sir.
  ♥️
cataflic

I sadly think that with this device VR is dead.
Always hoped that Apple can come out with a stylish device able to capture imagination and people…this is completely on the track of the others.
- CaryMGVR
  
  No technical reason why VR can’t be a part of future VPs.
  - cataflic
    
    My point is that vr world is a nerdy stuff…if you can imagine an influencer like Ferragni, Khaby wearing this kind of “device” …that is the point of mass adoption!
    I hoped Apple to came out with a “smart glasses” thing, similar to a rayban…
    It can make also coffee, but the style is the key!
    - Christian Schildwaechter
      
      Pretty sure Apple would love to do that, but the technology just isn’t ready and it won’t be for many years. Apple actually had a second AR project that was working on exactly what you were hoping for, to be released in a couple of years as their true main stream AR HMD, making the Vision Pro mostly a two to three generation bridge to allow developers today to experiment and learn how to create the type of apps that true AR glasses would allow. That second project was recently postponed indefinitely, because the technology needed advanced at a much slower pace than Apple (and everybody else) expected, and there are still many fundamentally unsolved problems.
      
      It is still moving though, and we see significant progress in see-though displays. So Apple going for still rather clunky AR based on VR HMDs with passthrough isn’t a sign that VR is dead. It is more a sign that it will probably take another decade to become so unintrusive that it will see mass adaption, and by then the distinction between VR and AR will probably be gone, something that only existed due to the limits of older technology.
      - cataflic
        
        We (vr enthusiast)have waited years and years since oculus first leaks, today we have decent fov and decent clarity…I think that a decade is a bit too much to keep alive this market, buying new headsets with 40/50/70/xx ppi and 200° fov.
        I think that we are at the point that developers want to gain money from the market, not from crowfunding o wathsoever, promising future breakthrough.
        I think that It will be much better to have “nice” glasses to look at a smartphone like screen with notifications kind of things to force the adoption of this new way of thinking at communications, after that the ar and xr
      - Christian Schildwaechter
        
        I’ve been waiting for VR for literal decades, but that doesn’t make development any faster. People waited their whole life for flying cars. And pretty much nobody in VR hardware is making money, and definitely nobody in AR hardware is making money.
        
        If you want “nice” glasses without all the fancy AR extras right now, go to vr-compare and take a look at the 3DoF Nreal/Xreal Air and the alternatives you’ll find there. They already allow smartphone screen sharing, notifications etc., but none of the features that make the Apple Vision Pro so compelling. Xreal also offers the Light with cameras, 6DoF and some AR capabilities, also used with a smartphone, though these are still a lot bulkier. But all of them look like regular sun glasses from the front and somewhat strange glasses from the side, and are available for purchase right now.
      - cataflic
        
        I think at an “Apple glasses” style stuff. White and light grey, smoothish, curved and nice , modern but with a touch of class. No strange things to do, just wear it and “welcome to a new world”. This is the effect to mass adoption.
        Anyway…I hope I’m totally wrong, but…..
    - GunnyNinja
      
      You are worried about the wrong things. Who gives a damn about influencers? My influencer lives in my mirrors.
- GunnyNinja
  
  Apparently VR has been dead for 6 years. It keeps dying every time a new VR device is released. Never seen something so dead keep growing. I have 3 PCVR headsets and have been waiting for a new one to buy. I suppose I will have to wait 3 days for the next resurrection…
Jack White

Vr is dead
- Christian Schildwaechter
  
  The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
  
  ~~Mark Twain~~ Virtual Reality
- GunnyNinja
  
  I keep hearing that.
eadVrim

Awesome presentation, maybe a controller in option for VR/AR games.
Frozenbizkit

Asgard’s Wrath’ Sequel comes to mind right now.. WTH did they do to that game? huge downgrade.
genki

Y’all… I love VR and I do hope this device will also do VR well, but the revolution in this device is the elimination of feeling isolated from the world and people around you while wearing the headset and evolving from the Meta mindset of escapism being the future (Horizon World/Zukerverse) and instead tethering the tech (and us) to our actual reality, to our physical surroundings… first and foremost. Fully immersive experiences will likely be secondary. This is not meant to make PCVR or standalone VR gamers jump up and scream “TAKE MY MONEY”. Chill? And keep loving your PCVR setups! They’ll be around for quite a while seeing how damn expensive this thing is. This is just a baby step in a larger process for Apple. Enjoy watching them figure shiz out. :)
genki

this has got to be the most mean-spirited XR community discussion I’ve tried to take part in. removing my thoughts because it doesn’t even matter here. ugh.
- Jack White
  
  *farts in your eyes*
genki

so.. am i not an IDIOT anymore? good god. hope we’re not connected on linkedin because i was agreeing with you all the way here.
- GunnyNinja
  
  I’d bet he forgot about you if you didn’t get reminding him
Dynastius

“Rotating the crown doesn’t put VP in VR mod-”

Yeah, it pretty much does. They showed someone dial it until an artificial environment blocks out the real room completely, that’s VR.

Since it’s possible to not see the real world at all, it will be able to handle VR. They didn’t showcase any VR for a couple of reasons. One, showing VR stuff looks like just looking at a normal video game when shown in a video. With the MR stuff, they can show how your apps, data, notifications, etc can all be floating in your actual environment. This is something people without VR experience can understand more readily. And two, it’s early and they wanted to show how their system is different than a Quest Pro or Index.

The Disney part showed, AR, MR, and VR.
Jack White

You have to be a retard to waste 3500 on this
Go outside
John Grimoldy

I was hoping Apple would be bringing some killer app to the table — something that would make the masses feel they *needed* VR/AR. I’m happy Apple is pushing the tech foward, but I have low expectations for Apple’s success here.
- John Grimoldy
  
  If Apple could get exclusive rights with NBA, NFL, NHL and release a BigScreen alternative with live pro sports (compete with the ability to change vantage points, run your own replays, bring up stats, etc), THAT could be something. Otherwise, why do I want one of these? $3,500 could get me a hell of a decent PC and a tethered alternative – complete with Steam compatibility and access to a veritable sea of VR titles.
  - ViRGiN
    
    > complete with Steam compatibility and access to a veritable sea of VR titles
    So exactly the things that attracted nobody?
    - kool
      
      Like clockwork your love of vr is shot by your hatred of pcvr. There’s a beauty in the irony. Don’t ever change!
      - ViRGiN
        
        Hatred, or disappointment?
        Every graphic card since GTX1080 in VR is doing next to nothing – the software is low end no matter what hardware you get at any price point.
        I wouldn’t have owned everything relevant up to Quest release if I did not believe in it. But you can’t deny reality forever.
        It’s not about me.
        It’s about that ~95% of existing steam customers owning a PCVR capable machine ultimatetly not getting into VR.
        It’s not about billions unable to afford a gaming PC. It’s about dozens of millions every day gamers who use high end PC hardware still not seeing the value to dedicate 300-400 dollars for good VR headset.
        
        Headsets given away for free would still not boost PCVR user engagment numbers.
      - GunnyNinja
        
        Just stop. You sound like a guy still lobbying for horse stables when people are driving Mustangs. My 4080 is killing VR titles in performance. On a G2. I have no idea why you keep spouting this nonsense. I’m 3 generations of GPU’s into the hardware you claim doesn’t exist. And you chose to mention a GTX1080. I started VR use with a 1080ti FTW3. It handled everything I threw at it. It’s been back in the box for years. I’ve since replaced it with a 3080ti, a 3090, and now a 4080. Get your facts in order.
      - kool
        
        At this point it’s hatred. I’m disappointed in the industries support of vr as well, but I understand until someone creates that unicorn game or device for vr the big players won’t bat an eye. It is telling that most gamers don’t bother with vr yet. I think it comes down to motion sickness, laziness, lack of support and lack of complexity in the games. Only so much can be done about motion sickness and nothing can be done about laziness. Support is low but devs are passionate and doing more with less. It’s the slow crawl of it all that’s driving people crazy about vr.
    - John Grimoldy
      
      It’s good enough for me, and that’s all I was talking about. YMMV
Arthur

I was only speaking to how Apple was going to talk about the headset. Considering the AR is passthrough and the hardware is SOTA this could incidentally be the best VR headset out when it launches. And Apple might still not say the letters “VR” when that happens.
ViRGiN

what happened to low-fi?
Jonathan Winters III

Asgard’s Wrath II is the perfect showcase of what the Quest 3 is capable of. And it’s massively advanced graphically from the Quest 2. So fear not.
- Arno van Wingerde
  
  Well, the Quest3 could be a poor man’s AVP. No processing power to speak of and not anywhere near the picture quality… here’s hoping it will match the PSVR2. It could be that Meta is trying very hard to do the same as Apple while showing very convincingly that they do not have a clue what the market wants with their failed Metaverse concept. In that sense, Sony’s choices may be clearer as a pure game device… but then again Sony choose a cable solution and has controllers with very limited battery life. Apple does not just succeed because they make such nicely developed stuff with a good concept, but also because everybody else seems focused on the technology rather than the use case. Meta should develop a Pro version aimed at their Metaverse that nobody buys and a gaming/entertaining device, perhaps with a kind of Steamdesk the way Apple has the batterijpack. For instance: does any of you actually watch 2D movies on the Quest? I simply found the picture quality so ridiculously bad compared to my TV, that you would would have to pay me… maybe AVP is good enough to make it attractive.
Christian Schildwaechter

As far as I understand this was still before even trying to mass produce them, so there was an unfortunate combination of lack of experience, lack of established custom made tooling and extremely complex construction at work. But in a leaked BOM assembly was still listed at rather high USD 130 due to them going a lot of very unconventional ways to make it this small, at the price of added complexity. So yield for the first regular runs should be significantly higher than 20%, but will most likely also be much worse than with mass market devices that are designed with cheaper production and assembly costs in mind like iPhones or Quest.
nejihiashi88

The competition is late VR is a new medium anyone could start a new operating system they missed their opportunity now apple started their operating system for VR then they will start crying that the appstore cut too much money from them.
impurekind

Yeah, that “tiny” batter and wire.

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