DiRT Rally Devs Say Lack of Vive Support Not Due to Oculus Exclusivity Deal

Where did I say Oculus offers nothing?
I said it can’t do anything extra on top of the Vive, but it offers a lower price.
As for ATW, Vive now has Interleaved Reprojection for all games which is similar.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4bzcj8/psa_atw_is_not_an_oculus_exclusive_feature_nor/

https://m.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4c5lp7/interleaved_reprojection_now_enabled_for_all/

I don’t know what you are running for Vive games to “run like shit” but Elite Dangerous, Project CARS and Dirt Rally run great on my GTX770Ti. (Got a 1080 on order)

… that the vive can’t match.

Reading comprehension. It’s important.

ATW is nice.. but even you gotta admit, it isn’t going to be THAT useful going forward. It served a purpose for older lower powered computers.. but as of right now, you almost can’t make a new PC that can’t handle VR games perfectly and that will need to fall back on ATW or IR. This was just Dirt Devs being lazy and not being in a hurry to be on the Vive. And so be it.. who cares. If you got a Vive, install Oculus Home and use Revive or if your smart, don’t and just wait. Patience is a virtue.

I’m for VR to win as well, as early we are in this market. I
understand what people see about the mistrust Oculus has formed, but I don’t see them as much as dubious, as just made a few bad business decisions in a PC market.

I remember an interview here at RoadtoVR in March with Oculus’ Jason Rubin that outlined their business model of producing games before this whole fiasco was even an idea.

https://youtu.be/N-ds-EiR5ls?t=1m58s

In that interview he outlined the reasoning behind the the production investment of Oculus Studios and exclusive games. At the time, for me anyway, it sounded a LOT like what I would expect from companies like Microsoft and Sony investing into small developers to make games for their console. This has been an established business model in the console market for quite some time now.

I never thought it would blow up the way it did. As far as I thought, this was an established way to produce games.

Oculus’ mistake was that they treated their HMD as a platform, the same way Sony and Microsoft treat their consoles as a platform. When ReVive came out, it created the notion that it was not a platform, but a peripheral (that, along with PC users accustomed to the universal plug-and-play nature of PCs for decades). When ReVive threatened Oculus’ platform business model, they first tightened up on their investment like a boa constrictor with the DRM update. Afterall, they spent possibly up to millions in their investment. The PC market, especially the vocal Vive owners, didn’t like this, but they also didn’t understand it, and thought of Oculus as anti-consumer.

I don’t blame Oculus for their initial DRM response. But yes, it was dumb. Especially since it went against Luckey’s initial open philosophy of VR before Facebook was in the picture. They should have treated their Oculus Store as “the platform”, which would really be a service, as all PC game vendors are on the internet, such as Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle, ect. Most other game developers realize this too such as Ubisoft and EA having their own services.

I guess what gets me now is that they redacted the DRM, and people are still up in arms. Oculus just picked the wrong business model, treating their HMD as a console like the XBONE and PS4, and not as a PC peripheral. They just made a bad choice that unfortunately made themselves look anti-consumer, and I’m sure they are saying “Oh F*%@” trying to not do anything that looks anti-consumer going forward.

Half of that list is valid. The other half is just nitpicky. None of it bothers me. Never dig deep into any corporation not expecting to find anything but self-interest. Google, Facebook, Valve, Razer, Microsoft, Sony, everybody. Most companies, especially those who have decades experience, only have been good at creating the illusion of being pro-consumer. It’s good business.

Well except Microsoft, It is baffling they made it this far.

I trust one thing : Provide me with the product I want and I’ll provide payment. They have honored that so far, unless they never release Touch, then that unspoken contract is broken, and I’ll get an OSVR.

It’s cheaper, looks more comfortable, and carries on the spirit of open VR that Oculus had before they were purchased by Facebook. I like the underdog, not big business sweeping in trying to gobble up the industry. I know that sounds weird since I have a Rift and they are now owned by Facebook, but the Oculus team are still a Kickstarter start up in my eyes, even though they have some veterans like Carmack and Jason Rubin. If they weren’t a start up, they definitely would have handled their launch better. Valve feels like a “me too” that shouldered their way into the industry after Oculus started proving modern VR. Something about Valve’s rush to production and the timing of their launch does not sit well with me, kinda like Trump’s campaign.

Oh and the elitisism of many Vive owners on the ‘nets and evangelizing “real VR” is quite annoying. The only reason it’s ‘better’ right now is that it’s the only one that has roomscale.

I am very well aware of that, except the end of the second paragraph of Valve offering a ‘solution’ to Oculus’s walled garden. They made a business decision seeing the opportunity, and it paid off.

I said this in a different post that Oculus made a mistake treating their HMD like a console platform and not a peripheral. I don’t see that as dubious as much as a bad choice. I still like their product though. I feel it is much more cleanly designed, and the way the Touch is designed I feel the same way. It might not be as capable as the Lighthouse system when it is released, but I have little interest in roomscale, just standing. As long as they offer a good product and it works that other stuff doesn’t matter me.

Here’s an analogy: I like to explore forest dirt roads. I drive a Subaru Forester. It is a well designed vehicle with good engineering. A big problem with it is that it has poor clearance and can’t go on really rutty roads. I would need a big and clunky 4 wheel drive full size pickup truck for that. I don’t like driving big trucks. They feel awkward to me. I like the Forester because it is small and agile.

The Vive with it’s bug like face and a mess of trailing cables is that big and clunky truck. Sure it can go more places, but it doesn’t make me comfortable. I prefer the cleaner fit of the Rift.

Those little differences are enough for me. Valve is working on the next Vive version. If it is as svelt as the Rift I might consider it. Till then the current Vive still looks like a dev kit to me.

And in your last paragraph, I cannot run my VR enabled steam games without steam VR running along with Oculus home. I can run my Oculus games without Steam running, the same as Vive can run Steam games without Oculus running. This is exactly the same thing other than you have to use ReVive, which Oculus lets it work now.

I even purchased a Rift cimpatible game off GOG, that still opens up Steam VR, even though the point of buying things from GOG is so I don’t have to use Steam. Although that is a developer choice, don’t think it is any different for the Rift than Vive needing Home.

Yes, I’ve seen that argument before, but think what what it would mean to strap on some kinda workaround such as ReVive to a game, instead of programming specifically for the hardware. You’d have the potential for substandard ports instead of something polished and designed to utilize Vive’s features.

Against what some people believe, these two HMDs are not just another peripheral like a monitor, where if you can use one you should be able to plug in the other and it works the same. Maybe VR will get there someday, but not today. I’ll have to take your word on the “turn your head 180 degrees” thing, but I’m sure it is more complex than that.

At this point we really are speculating on the manufacturers intentions. You think there is something sinister going on. I feel this is a normal trend that I’ve seen repeated several times in the past 25 years when new gaming hardware is released.

No, Oculus showed a natural business decision to protect their investment in software development. You win when they redacted it so get over it. They acknowledged you were right. They are still essentially a start up with way more capital than they probably ever imagined just two years ago. They are definitely making some sophomore mistakes.

If anything, Valve did the “big bad corporation” move, coming in with a cash grab with a slightly prototype-looking HMD, releasing it right along with their only competitor, and using their borrowed HTC production capability to overwhelm the fledgling Oculus release.

Valve did however design a really cool motion tracking system, while cumbersome to set up, especially if you really care about roomscale and have actually moved your dining set into a pile in the next room.

I find anyone foolish who doesn’t give Oculus the benefit of the doubt. Oculus is dumb, not dubious. Maybe the Facebook acquisition was the worst decision they made cause of Facebook’s Orwellian reputation. Now they are no longer the revolutionary harbinger of VR, but suspect as some kind of evil empire.

My biggest complaint about this Vive fanboyism is that it is hurting the VR industry. If you like a Vive then great, but VR is still new, and we need all the players in the market to succeed. The Vive will also probably be more of an enthusiast system because the average Joe who can’t figure out how to plug in speaker wires is not going to buy a Vive. The Vive will need the “not really VR” systems to bridge the gap in the consumer market enough to make the market attractive enough for investors to want to invest in production for systems like the Vive.

I’m not sure how fanboyism works when you are the only thing out there. I think at that time people were just excited that VR was actually happening.

One good thing about the lighthouse system, ignoring roomscale, is that it allows the potential for truly mobile VR with backpack systems. I think this is essential for widespread adoption of VR, however, I think that will actually happen from the other direction as phone VR gets better.

Is the nonsense you are referring to is that developers didn’t want to develop for the PS3 because they didn’t like the architecture? I owned only PS3 at the time and lived through only a handful of good games for a few years because if that.

And what developer are you referring to.

I wouldn’t say ‘in love’, it is still definitely first gen VR. I could do without the god rays and have a higher resolution. The Rift sensor bounces all over the place when I play Dirt. However, It is my HMD of choice, a choice because I can only afford one or have the time and room for one VR HMD right now. So yes, there is investment there, but it was a conscious decision made after years of watching the fledgling VR industry grow. The Vive just never captured my imagination, although I find the Lighthouse system to be a model for future VR. I just don’t prefer the HMD. I had to choose one, I made a choice, so yes, there is ‘no time’ for the other.

Why are you so offended? And what’s wrong with OSVR compared to the Vive?

OSVR is more in my price range, and how would purchasing an OSVR help Oculus? They must have screwed up their kool-aid too.

Yes there are some emotions. The kool-aid is basically waiting three years for the Rift, and Valve swoops in and undermines their launch at just the right time, only exacerbated by Oculus’s inexperience fumbling the launch. Valve’s timing does not feel like coincidence, and makes me more distrustful of them than this Oculus exclusivity thing. Then a bunch of Vive elitists rub it in by dumping all over the Rift and preaching their VR system is the only real VR, when I think that is subjective to people’s needs and budget, and also something fleeting once there is more competition in the market.

Regardless, I truly think the Rift, HMD alone right now, is better designed than the Vive’s. Sure that could be subjective too, but is my prerogative when my wallet is involved. I’m patient and waiting for the pay off when Touch is released.

Also, I already cannot play any roomscale games, but I don’t complain. When Touch comes out, what guarantees me that the developer programmed the game for the controller? I’ve joked there needs be a “DeVive” for Rift owners wanting to play roomscale games designed for Vive Controllers, or even those that want to play with the Vive Controllers and not the HMD.

I also didn’t choose a ‘team’ as much as I chose a product. If Valve makes an HMD I want then I’ll get that. Right now I think the Rift is a better HMD. I also understand risks. If Oculus released this same HMD without the power of Facebook to continue research and development, I might have bowed out after the exclusivity fiasco. They would have crashed and burned, but because of Facebook they will release Touch and continue to produce games. I will get what I want.