HTC Confirms Vive Cosmos Will Support OpenVR/SteamVR

Cv1 functions better in almost every single way? How old are you? 12? Let’s see.. VIVE laser tracking is more precise over a greater area and under more adverse conditions. That’s inevitable when you have lasers painting an area. Oculus lenses are better in some areas and worse in others. Difference is small. Oculus drivers are more efficient than steam vr. Oculus reliance on USB/bandwidth is another weak point. Also the USB wires going to the sensors.

I get the feeling you think you’re some kind of God-like authority whose view is not to be questioned.

Who’s really the biased one? You. As I said.. Oculus is better on driver efficiency, touch is good, lenses are better in some applications and have wider sweet spot. Oculus headphones are crappy and had that design/build fault resulting in a number of failed speakers. USB burden and wired sensors not great. Now you on the other hand childishly want to push “oculus wins” like a 5 year old. Both headsets have good and bad. You are boring the feck out of me now so jog-on.

wins 9 out of your own arbitrary categories, most of which are just variations of “cheaper”. My two most important features are

1 – Substantially larger play area
2 – spot on 360 tracking

My experience is Vive crushes Rift on both. That’s why it’s my preferred VR system.

don’t agree with your 8, most of them are variations of “it’s cheaper”. I don’t really care that it’s cheaper. I want the system where I’m not distracted from what I want to do in the game because of limitations in the system.

Many instead of most.

3. More comfortable headset with superior head strap.
5. Built in headphones
6. Cheaper (even with the built in headphones and superior strap)
10. More and better free games/experiences bundled

These 4 are all saying “it’s cheaper” in different ways. Vive audio strap (and vive pro) are better at 3 and 5. 6 specifically says it’s cheaper. And 10 is “you get more games for free”, which also just says “it’s cheaper”.

Your other 5 (the list skips #4), these are personal opinions

1. Superior controllers (in ergonomics and inputs and features)
7. More user friendly Home environment, store experience, and in general menus and stuff like that.

1. There are things about each controller that I like better vs teh other.
7. Neither one get it quite right, Oculus Go has the best home. Home is irrelevant once you get in the game.

These two are both because they have a closed system instead of an open one. I don’t consider that an overall plus.
8. Plays Steam games without a hack, unlike Vive that requires a hack to play Rift games
9. Better exclusives

That leaves this one. I don’t notice this at all, at least not once I’ve put the headset on and am in the games. I am using Vive Pro, not Vive, though, maybe that makes a difference.

2. Better lenses and larger sweet spot according to many reviews

You keep making the case in many ways that Rift is better because it’s cheaper. The most expensive part of any PC based VR system is the PC. There are gaming graphics cards that cost more than either. I keep pointing out ways I find Vive to be better, you keep disagreeing with all of them.

Cheaper is one advantage, it’s not 4 or 5 advantages simultaneously. It’s not just me, plenty of people prefer the Vive, that’s why it has roughly equal market share to the cheaper Rift. If it was more expensive and worse, it would fail as a product.

I’m giving you, as a game developer, my experience using both side by side. Instead of listening to and learning from what I’m telling you, you resort to name calling.

How would Kat Walk Mini make Rift better than Vive, it’s available for both. Same thing with backpack PC.

And I keep saying “cheaper is one befit”, you keep wanting to make it 4.

You’re perfectly willing to add a $99 tracking station to the Rift to end up with something not quite as good as what you get “out of the box” with a Vive, but balk at adding a $99 headstrap/headphones where you end up with something better than what comes with the Rift.

Rift + 3rd sensor vs Vive + headstrap is the same price differential as either without the extra accessory. How can you throw out “you can add a 3rd” sensor then get bent out of shape when someone else says “you can add the audio headstrap”.

Large scale 360 tracking is a killer feature for VR. There is a massive difference between 10×10 and 15×15. 15×15 is 225% more space, it’s almost the size of a boxing ring, so you can use the entire ring in Thrill of the Fight.

You don’t get 360 tracking out of the box with Rift. That’s far more important than built in headphones.

well we fundamentally disagree with what’s important about VR then, I put room scale 360 tracking right at the top of the list. It’s absolutely vital to so many games I play.

Oculus Go outsells either, that doesn’t make it better. And all of the stats I’ve seen show that Vive and Rift have roughly equal market share.

And it’s nonsense that a point about 360 tracking being important isn’t valid now, but will be valid when Quest ships.

Fanboy goggles? I’m a fan of VR, whichever one works best is the one I want to use. I really don’t care a thing about HTC, as soon as Oculus makes, or anyone else even, makes one that works better, I’ll use that.

You’ve never even used real room scale 360 VR and you don’t think it’s a feature worthwhile? And just spend all day arguing with people who have used room scale VR and think it’s very important?

There are games where it’s absolutely critical to turn around and shoot at things the opposite direction, then turn back to the original direction to shoot again. There are games where you want to move around in a large area because that’s the natural way to play the game.

For example, Boxing in a full ring is a better experience than boxing in a limited space. You want to back up, move forward, etc, if the opponent moves, you want to keep moving.

I just spent 2 hours playing In Death – it’s my favorite game. I bought the 3rd sensor for the Rift just it could be used to play games like this. I read how limited the play area was, it wasn’t until I went to set it up that I realized just how small the area really is.

My 3rd sensor had to be in the middle of the room in the way of where people walked. The play area in the game was too small for that game. The 3rd sensor sits in a box because the constraints on where to place it make it unusable. I play games like that only on the Vive because game play is better.

Other games it doesn’t matter. Both work well. I said from the beginning that the Rift is really good at many games, I said I set it up in a place it made more sense than the Vive. I also said the Vive is better at some games because of the larger play area/360 tracking.

I never said the Rift is bad, I said the Vive gives a more comprehensive VR experience. The larger play area, 360 tracking, the vive trackers (not the controllers, the trackers), etc.

I also have said several times that I’m really looking forward to the Quest. Large play areas that can easily be set up in any room and taken to friends or when traveling.

BoxVR and BeatSaber are my exercise routine. I want to be able to take those with me when I travel. I’ve done it, but it’s a major hassle to do that with either Vive or Rift.

I don’t care if Quest is made by Oculus, HTC, Microsoft, or anyone else, I just care that it works well.

I’ve said Rift is fine for many games. Vive is better at some games because of room scale. You have no problem agreeing that Rift is better than Oculus Go. Oculus go is great at some things, and for a couple, gets it better than either Rift or Vive. But full 6DOF is essential for so many other things, including Beat Saber.

I could do the same thing you did, make a list of things better about Rift, and a list of things better about Oculus Go. I could even end up with a longer list of things better about Oculus Go. But neither of us would argue that Oculus Go is better VR than either Rift or Vive because 6DOF is so important.

Just like 6DOF is essential for some games, room scale 360 tracking is essential for others.

I ever said that you can’t have a great time with a Rift. In fact, I said the opposite, that I have a great time with Rift, but there are things Vive does better that are essential to a class of games.

Oculus Go = 199
Rift with 3rd sensor and VR PC = 1299 + 349 + 99 = $1747
Vive with deluxe audio strap and VR PC = 1299+499+99 = $1897

Some people will get a cheaper gaming PC, others will spend more. $1299 is a reasonable number.

A Rift system is 8.7 times as expensive as Go. With current state of VR, it’s worth it to get 6DOF. Nevermind the long list of things Go is better at. Cheaper, better resolution, more portable, better at watching media, etc, etc. You can’t play games like Beat Saber with it. Not the game specifically, but rather any game that works like that. So Rift is “better” VR.

A Vive system is 8% more expensive than a Rift system. 8% more to get spot on large room scale 360 tracking that is pretty essential to one class of games and that makes another class of games more enjoyable.

Quest can change all of this if they get the hand tracking right. Rift and Vive will still be better overall, but the cost difference will go from marginal to substantial. It should have all of the advantages of the Go + 6DOF. It won’t have high end PC gaming level graphics. Quest vs Rift or Vive is when the price difference will really matter.

Oculus doesn’t let Vive users access Rift games, how do you penalize Vive for that? Vive opened Viveport the other way around.

Vive also supports larger play areas (15′ 15′ for Vive, 20’x20′ for View Pro).
Also supports vive trackers

Better tracking + larger play areas + vive trackers. The combination opens up a whole range of experiences that aren’t possible on Rift.

Btw: the head strap on the Deluxe audio strap and the Vive Pro is better than the head strap on the Rift.

The rift is cheaper, Vive is better. Some will spend the extra money, others won’t. I have and use both, if I only could have 1, it’d be the Vive every time.

Vive absolutely is better, Rift is cheaper. Nearly every reason you listed had to do with them being cheaper. Why are you arguing with someone who has both systems and uses them daily?

And the 2 basestation vive tracks better than a 3 basestation rift because they are designed quite differently.

And you’re giving Rift extra credit for having a closed system instead of downgrading them vs the open system. Of course they can use the open system. The integration has been pretty glitch for me the last few days, not sure if it’s from the recent update or something else.

I have both. I use the Vive 90% of the time because it functions better. The 2 sensor Rift doesn’t do 360 tracking, the 3 sensor rift has a limited play area. Limited so much that my rear tracker had to in the middle of the room instead of against the wall. I had to set it on a box and tell people, please don’t bump that box. My side by side VR setup so we can do two player VR would have worked much, much better if both devices were Vive.

The best thing about VR is your body is the controller. Large play areas allow your legs to be part of that controller. I use VR for exercise, using my legs too is important, and works great in things like boxing. The larger the play area, the better the experience.

Far from being better in nearly every single way, really the only ways I find the Rift to be better are
1- the ability of the controller to track if your fingers are touching the trigger and other buttons so you can do things like point is better.
2 – Apps seem to load a bit faster
3 – Their control panel (or whatever it’s called) where you select your app to run and set the settings is better. I don’t find the need for a home space, I don’t know why Rift takes you to a different room to browse the store, I don’t do anything in either the SteamVR home or the Rift home besides pull up the screen to change settings or select the next app to run. Oculus Go gets this better than either Rift, SteamVR or especially WMR, which is the worst of them all. VivePort does have the cool feature where some games have full 360 previews. That’s so obviously a good way to preview VR games before buying it’s surprising nobody else does it.

I set up the 3 sensors, played In Death (my favorite game right now) and kept losing tracking. That absolutely never happens with Vive, that’s not a geek issue (although I am a geek), that’s a playability issue.

There are games like Beat Saber that either one plays equally well, but I’ve never once played on the Vive and wished i was using the Rift instead, the reverse has happened multiple times because of playability issues.

And I see being able to point with your finger instead of the controller as a, hey that’s neat as a geek issue, not at all a playability issue.

it’s possible and I will try it again at some point. I did my test and went back to the Vive that was set up beside it. I’ve moved things around, Vive is in a dedicated area, Rift is in living room (2 sensor setup). I use Vive for games that need 360 tracking and significant movement and Rift for games that don’t. The living room setup is ideal for games where I take turns with family and we can watch each other play.

The other issue I had with Rift is the play area was too small, I wanted to put the 3rd sensor against the other wall, I had to set it 4 feet in from that wall. I followed the rift instructions to set everything up. In 11 months, I’ve never had a single problem with vive tracking and can use all of my available area.

As I’ve said before, I have high hopes for Quest and Cosmos to be “good enough” and much better than the significant issues i have with existing Inside Out systems because of the extra cameras. Maintaining hand tracking is critical for VR.

“trying to actually claim otherwise is the height of VR elitist nerd/geek absurdity–and certainly if you’re one of the people who has went to the extra expense and hassle of setting up three sensors.” << You like to label people dunt you flappy. Anyone who has a different opinion in fact. Alan Dail gave an accurate factual account of Oculus. Having used CV1 and owning Vive and having Oculus owning friends – Alan Dail is correct. You're the one with issues. First you label anyone who disagrees with your view of cosmos being ugly (anyone who disagrees you call "ignorant on design"). Now you're calling Alan an elitist nerd because he doesn't have sex with your godlike ultra-biased statements. Your pro statements about CV1 were not balanced and purely emotion-driven. You're a child.

I didn’t find CV1 to function better than Vive. If we’re really talking looks, frankly I thought the Vive was more interesting visually and tactilely than the Rift from the beginning.

2. Having both, I prefer the touchpad.
3. my body is the controller, I prefer the games be designed so you don’t have to think about which button to push.
4. kinda cook, not having that hasn’t been an issues. And sometimes it’s hard to tell if you’re supposed to push something with your finger vs push a button
5. personal opinion

I don’t play driving games, if I did, I’d want a steering wheel and pedals, not a thumbstick. I want VR games that work like things do in real life. I’ve spend most of my time playing In Death, Beat Saber, BoxVR (lost a ton of weight with this one), Thrill of the Fight, Space Pirate Trainer, Smashbox Arena, etc.

And, again, there rant about having to buy an Xbox controller is just another price issue. Again, I don’t care about the price. The biggest cost of my VR systems is the PC, and I only use each one for VR.

If one of us is self absorbed, it’s not me. I use both, have things I like about both, you refuse to believe that people could prefer Vive. You apparently refuse to believe that people could prefer VR work like real life, not like an Xbox.