pimax super 5k — Image courtesy Pimax

Pimax Launches “5K” Super VR Headset Featuring 180Hz Refresh Rate

By

-

Dec 1, 2020

Pimax, the company known for its wide field of view (FOV) VR headsets, have now launched the Pimax “5K” SUPER, a PC VR headset first shown in its prototype stage at CES 2020 earlier this year.

The new Pimax “5K” Super is being billed as a hardware refresh of the Pimax “5K” Plus, which launched in 2018 with 2,560 × 1,440 pixels per-eye LCD display capable of up to 144Hz refresh rate, and a 200-degree FOV. Priced at $600, the Plus is just one step above the company’s $450 entry-level headset, Pimax Artisan.

Now available for purchase on the company’s website for $750, Pimax “5K” Super features the same 2,560 × 1,440 resolution per-eye and 200-degree FOV as the Plus variant, however the biggest draw is its higher refresh rate at 160Hz, with 180Hz available in experimental mode. In addition to those refresh rates mentioned above, the headset also offers support for 90Hz, 120Hz and 144Hz.

Image courtesy Pimax

Pimax “5K” Super also includes a new Modular Audio Strap, Pimax comfort kit facial padding, nose guard to prevent light leakage, and a ruggedized exterior housing.

As for the headset’s main draw, provided you have the computer to run it, higher panel refresh rates typically equate to smoother experiences: eg. Valve Index’s 144Hz refresh rate offers impressively smooth and tight-feeling gameplay.

Meta Orion Interview Dives Deep Into Details Like Resolution, Battery Life, & More

Like many of Pimax’s headsets, the “5K” Super is tracked via either SteamVR 1.0 or 2.0 tracking beacons, which must be purchased separately at its base $750 price. A bundle is however available for $1250 which includes two SteamVR 2.0 base stations and two Valve Index controllers.

Pimax headsets are also now said to include the new ‘Pimax VR Experience’ software which the company says “dramatically reduces configuration time for VR software” by automatically applying all VR optimizations required for Pimax headsets and allowing for a one-button launch on any platform.

Note: We’ve put the “5K” in quotes because Pimax isn’t referring to the same 5K that would come to mind when thinking traditionally about this such as TVs or monitors. The headset’s total horizontal resolution is claimed to be 5K pixels, however that’s split across each eye. The naming scheme is confusing, so as with other headsets that use similar nomenclature, we put “5K” in quotes to help our readers understand that it’s being used differently than they might expect.

ArtemiyNeko

Cool, but their lineup is sure getting even more confusing…
- jlschmugge
  
  They need to phase out the original 5k, then bring the Super down to match price once they clear stock. They should also stick to just one 8k model. That would effectively give people a choice between three tiers that can match peoples pockets and PC specs. It’s nice that they have the Artisan for those who want a nearly similar experience but can neither afford the higher tiers nor a new PC to run them.
3872Orcs

Does their lenses still suck? Because I can’t take anything from them seriously until they’ve fixed that problem. I mean my 5k+ was unusable! It was like being inside a gold fish bowl with serious distortions, among other problems! I’ve never experienced a worse headset and I’ve owned quite many.
- James Cobalt
  
  They’ve been slowly improving them, but they can’t get rid of it completely. I believe StarVR One addressed it by aligning the deformation map to each individual user’s eye position. Not sure how else you could address it. In addition to lens quality, the degree of distortion will depend on each user’s face shape, IPD, and whether you’re looking straight ahead or shifting your gaze.
  - 3872Orcs
    
    So we need eye tracking then for high fov headsets to have no distortions? StarVR had eye tracking and from what I’ve heard they had no distortions.
    - James Cobalt
      
      There are a couple approaches. First is multiview rendering: https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/turing-multi-view-rendering-vrworks/
      
      StarVR purportedly uses this approach when you build from their SDK. In other words, the software has to be built with this in mind, and it has a lot of implications for rendering so you can’t necessarily just slap it onto a title. I know NVIDIA’s VR SDK for this basically hasn’t been touched since summer 2018 and their implementations for Unity and UE4 are outdated and buggy AF.
      
      You can adjust for the distortions without multiview (by using the lenses and distortion profile), but rendering quality won’t be very consistent across the FOV and you’ll need to render a larger image than is otherwise needed.
      
      The next fix is a dynamic distortion profile (the info on how to distort the image so it looks correct through the lenses). First it has to be appropriate for both the lenses AND your IPD. If the distortion profile doesn’t dynamically change based on your IPD, then the image could get distorted a bit. When you look around with your eyes (rather than moving your head), your pupils are no longer looking through the same parts of the lenses, so the distortion profile would need to account for this as well. Eye tracking means pupil location is always taken into account, and hence why Starbreeze gets good results even without a mechanical IPD (the huge sweet-spot helps there too).
      
      Starbreeze has said they are using both of these approaches. Not sure to what extent; I’m guessing if you play a regular SteamVR game it’s not necessarily going to support multiview rendering for non-coplanar displays. I believe you best address peripheral distortion with the dynamic distortion profile, and best address wide-FOV clarity + performance through the multiview renderer.
      
      PIMAX said a long time ago they were going to support dynamic distortion based on eye tracking, but… PIMAX says a lot of things. It’s 2020 and there are still backers waiting for their kits.
  - Ad
    
    Would the lenses need to move? Because if not then it seems like pimax could just start bundling the eye tracker they already sell.
    - James Cobalt
      
      With a large enough sweet spot, the lenses don’t need to move when combined with dynamic distortion correction (whether or not it results in long-term comfort for players with extreme IPDs is something I can’t comment on).
      
      Pimax has been experimenting with this. When they demo’d at… er… was it CES (?) – the model they showed was using an early prototype. Though I don’t believe they told anyone at the time – I think this only came out months later. People who tried the headset said it had significantly reduced distortion; almost none at all. Unfortunately their product strategy is so haphazard and unfocused, who knows when or if it’ll actually make it out of R&D.
Ted Joseph

I like their mounting strategy. It looks comfortable!!! It is sad that Oculus still has the uncomfortable strap for the Quest 2, and now the elite strap is cracking. Why can’t Oculus get this right?! The forehead pad is also a MUST. Even using the Elite strap (once the plastic issue is fixed), it is still pulling the headset to your FACE, and not resting on your forehead. After an hour or so, my face is sore… This is something Sony (PSVR) figured out years ago with their halo design!!!… Come on Oculus! You did it for my Rift S!!!! Get your mounting strategy fixed!! For my quest 1, I had to “Frankenmod” the Vive Delux… . . . .
- Graham J ⭐️
  
  Straps distribute the pressure around the face whereas halos concentrate it in a smaller area on the forehead. Which is preferable depends who you ask.
Graham J ⭐️

The author is mistakenly putting quotes in the product name where there should be none.
- Scott Hayden
  
  Hi Graham. The quotation marks are intentional. I added a bit to help make it more clear why we do this with things labeled like Pimax “8K” and Pimax “5K” given the nature of the per-eye resolution. Thanks for reading!
  - Ad
    
    HP did it in their first video for the Reverb, I can’t remember if Facebook did.
victor

I don’t understand the demand for higher refresh rates and statement that says it makes for “smoother” gameplay if the pc has problems keeping up with them causing stutters/non-smoothness compared to lower refresh rates. I have gtx1080ti and 8700K cpu I cannot play any flight sims becuase of that if I set the refresh on my pimax5K+ any higher that 60(although it is capable of up to 120HZ).
- Kevin White
  
  Well obviously it will only be smoother if the PC is pushing out that number of rendered frames. Stuttering at 160Hz is always going to be way way worse than a consistent 75Hz, for example.
  - d0x360
    
    That’s why if you have studder you lock the frame rate to the 1% low. On a high end pc that should be 120hz for pretty much every game.
    
    Someone who can’t run this at least 90hz shouldn’t be buying it… It’s not for them. They should invest that money into a better pc.
    - victor
      
      I don’t believe even the most powerful PC on the market today can run 120HZ on flight sims basing from my personal experience and from other flightsim VR unthusiasts! For guaranteed smooth baseplay with no stutters at 120Hz at that resolution I would spend the money no matter even if the PC would cost 5K
      - d0x360
        
        Flight sim… Well actually I dunno.. I can run flight sim at 4k60 max settings and I’m only playing on an i7 5820k (oc all core to 4.6ghz), 32 gigs ddr4 and a 2080ti ftw3 ultra. So if I dropped some settings down to high or medium (plus the resolution drop for the Rift S) I should be fine.
        Allot of the games performance is actually determined by your internet speed and also how you install it.
        
        For example I have the game itself on a nvme ssd, then I have the games cache on a different nvme ssd and windows on my last nvme ssd.
        
        It’s especially important to keep the game and the game cache on different drives because the cache is where all the downloaded data goes and if you have the game on the same drive then you’re having the drive constantly be writing while also reading but not only that it’s also reading from the install folder and the cache folder.
        
        Also you don’t want the game or the game cache on the same drive as your windows install AND your page file. I mean you can install it like a normal game but you will get better performance if you install it like I did and also again your internet speed is important because it streams most of the assets.
        
        I also have a gigabit connection.
        
        Of course that doesn’t mean it will be great in vr for me but it’s a bit disingenuous to pick literally the MOST demanding vr game in existence.
        How about every game except flight sim… So 99.99999% of games.
      - victor
        
        really? installing the game in a different ssd than windows would make a difference? That is very interesting I may give that a try one day becuase my video usage and cpu usage is well below 80% and frametimes both less than 10ms and still get stutters/unsmoothness which I never understood why. My internet connection is 15mb/s but it is barely used while I play DCS or xplane(non-multiplayer)
      - d0x360
        
        Well cpu use can be lower than 100% and your cpu can still be the bottleneck. IPC gains, instructions and just architecture differences effect allot.
        
        What are your full specs?
        
        It’s not so much installing on a different drive then windows it’s more having the game and game cache on separate fast drives.
        
        Not installing things on the Windows drive is just something people do if they have enough drives in order to make things like resets easier.
        
        So I have a 200 gig m.2 SSD that only has Win10 on it. I even change the default folders for everything to my D drive which is a standard 4TB HDD.
        Then I put my swap file on a SATA SSD and my games all goes on nvme SSD’s..well most of them anyways. If the game is less than a gig and streaming assets isn’t a big deal then I’ll put it on my HDD.
      - victor
        
        My game is installed on the same fast SSD as my win10. My PC has another SSD but it is not as fast. Should I set the game swap file to this other ssd ? If so how do I do this ?
      - d0x360
        
        There should be an option in the network section I believe…I did it during install and I haven’t played much so I’m not absolutely sure but the option is definitely there.
        
        Also whether your game is installed on the windows drive or not if you have another SSD definitely set the cache to the other drive.
        
        Basically what it’s doing is downloading the buildings and stuff from the net, putting it in the “cache” and then reading from it to populate your word. So it’s doing lots of reads and writes.
        
        Having it on a separate drive means the game can load data quicker because it can pull from 2 places while also reducing the reads and writes on a single drive.
        
        That should help with studder as most of it is caused by the SSD being written to and then read from quite a bit. So separating the cache makes it so each ssd can perform at its best.
        
        Also if you have an nVidia gpu and you use vsync try going into the control panel and forcing vsync to “fast” and see if that helps as well. That fixed allot of studder in unity games and even though this isn’t unity it can still help sometimes. It also reduced input latency over regular vsync
      - victor
        
        I do have nvdiia gpu(GTX1080ti) but vsync is not used in VR so not sure what you saying there. How do I configure the cache?
      - d0x360
        
        You’re absolutely right. Sorry about that, I reply to disqus comments via email and I was in 2 different conversations and while I was writing your reply I got up to do something and when I got back I mixed them up.
        
        Still a good tip for unity lol. It also still applies to the game when running flat.
- iNCEPTIONAL
  
  It’s obviously more for those people that have the money to be able to purchase the PC’s that will be able to run games on it smoothly. And it makes that aspect of it quite future proof too. When the PC tech catches up, running a VR headset at 180Hz is bound to be very nice.
- Jiwon Kim
  
  having more options never be cons. few games could run that refresh rate. you can reduce resolution if you wanna get more frame. there is nothing bad for it. if you want to have much crisp image you can simply reduce refresh rate option. VR should targeting re-build reality. we need 180 hz any how. 90hz is not enough to feel ‘real’
- Ad
  
  They made this like last year and the point is that they probably found some fringe display manufacturer and they need a “best of” thing to list.
Wild Dog

This is neat, but what about the 8k?
mirak

give me oled
- d0x360
  
  OLED or bust. LCD sucks for vr.
  - Karen Buenrostro
    
    Get $192 hourly from Google!… Yes this is Authentic since I just got my first payout and has been really amazing because it had been the most significant quantity of $24413 in a week…(b9573)… It seems Appears Unbelievable but you won’t forgive yourself if you do not check it >>>> http://www.BeLifeStyles.com ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
  - Schadows
    
    I must admit that despite all the improvements and declarations of every company … LCD blacks and contrasts in general are nowhere near what I had with my OG Vive.
    Sure, there is almost no perceptible SDE now, but at what price!
    - victor
      
      I agree!
    - jlschmugge
      
      What’s your new HMD and how is the refresh and ghosting on LCD? I only have the Rift CV1, which is not a good ambassador for OLED since the SDE is like a real screen door and the blacks, while dark, tend to bleed and ghost. With that I could stomach a bit of less than vivid blacks and colors for a non-smeary image.
      
      Also, aren’t most high-end HMDs becoming LCD now just for higher refresh rates? I’m thinking of finally upgrading soon, and trying to learn the pros and cons of each screen. It seams the OLED for lifers are pretty loud, but wondering if in most cases people are generally happy with LCD panels.
      - Schadows
        
        I got several headset since my OG Vive, but right now I’m using the Pimax 5K+.
        Not the best headset out there for sure, but the SDE is quite good (8K Super and 8KX are obviously better in that aspect), and it need to be put in the perfect position on the face to have everything crystal clear, but I can’t go back to narrow FOV now.
        But be it the Pimax, the Index, or Quest 2 … blacks, contrast and colors aren’t up to my OG Vive.
      - jlschmugge
        
        I’m thinking of getting the 5k because of the FOV. I’ve gotten so tired of the binoculars of the CV1 that I stopped using it. As much groaning there is on the internet about Pimax in general, It seems from those who actually own it have the same sentiment: not the greatest, but generally satisfied and spoiled by the FOV. You are also not the first that I’ve seen remark about a decent SDE. How is the software and general compatibility/bugginess?
      - Schadows
        
        Well, the headset was a mess at first, especially software-wise and comfort-wise.
        But now, the software is quite stable with lots of options, and the comfort is … ok (but not more than that), at least IF you have the Modular Audio Strap (which is sold with the headset now).
        I still find that Ihave to place it a little to high on my face, compared to other headset, to get a blur-free experience, which feels unatural, but well, the immersion of the FOV makes it hard to go back once you’re used to it.
        
        I mainly use it to play racing sims by the way, with obviously some occasional Alyx and other FPS with Index controllers.
        
        I also use the eye-tracking module, but you need a RTX 20xx card to take advantage of it, and it’s not night and day so I’m wouldn’t recommand it considering its price.
        
        And as I said, the blacks are not black.
      - jlschmugge
        
        Thank you, that was honest and informative.
- Martijn Valk
  
  Couldn’t agree more.. I really, really hope coming ‘next gen’ VR headsets will be OLED based. I own a Oculus DK2, HTC Vive, Valve Index, and despite the Index having great clarity, I still miss the impressive contrast and deep blacks of the DK2. I have recently purchased an HP Reverb G2, and while the colors/contrast are -somewhat- better than the Index, it’s still nowhere near my trusty DK2..
Kevin White

Specificity in some things, certainly not in all.
iNCEPTIONAL

These guys deserve major kudos for all the cutting edge limits they are pushing with their headsets.
- Ad
  
  Other companies should ask them to make things for them. Controllers for example are something other companies can barely iterate on.
- Sofian
  
  all the cutting edge limits they are pushing
  
  The only thing they cut is the binocular vision.
  Reduce binocular vision to increase monocular vision, blind people are happy about it.
  Worst VR headset on the market.
  - iNCEPTIONAL
    
    From what I recall the area where binocular vision works is the same as any other headsets. And, just like in real life, binocular vision doesn’t go much beyond about 120 degrees anyway.
d0x360

They should stop using combined resolution as the advertised resolution, it’s misleading.

Also no OLED means no thanks. New high end HMD’s should not be using LCD. They ghost more, can’t show true black or white or as many colors. Dark games are nearly impossible to play and actually see on LCD panels.
- Ad
  
  I think they make an OLED version of the 8K+
- Jistuce
  
  They aren’t using combined resolution. 5K isn’t any kind of resolution.
  We can argue back and forth about 4K and 8K*, but 5K doesn’t correspond to any sort of standard, semi-standard, or pseudo-standard. It is unambiguously “just some random number”.
  
  And, well… their advertised resolutions ARE per-eye. When they talk about resolution, they specify actual complete resolutions on a per-eye basis instead of just specifying one number and letting the others all be implied.
  People are confusing a model number that looks like an HDTV marketing lie for an actual advertised resolution. And this confusion is intentional, I grant. But they do state on their product pages what the actual display resolution is(in this case 2560×1440 per eye).
  
  *I contend that 4K and 8K are not valid resolution names at all, UHDTV should been called 2160p instead of 4k, and the HDTV manufacturers adopted the terminology specifically to mislead the mass market by implying a higher resolution than is actually present.
  People compare 4000 or 4096 with 1080 instead of comparing 4k with 1920(“2K”, by current marketing logic), inadventently comparing horizontal resolution on the new display with vertical resolution of the old one, even though a 2160p display is not even 4 kilopixels wide(3840 is not 4K). In that regard, Pimax is using the terms exactly as they are intended.
  - Abion47
    
    “2K” refers to the 2560×1440 resolution, not 1920×1080.
    - Jistuce
      
      A. Good job, you completely missed my point.
      
      B. Not by the logic that makes 3840×2160 “4K”. 2560×1440 is 3K in marketing speak!
      
      C. 2K really shouldn’t refer to 2560×1440 in ANY world. I hate that apparently people ARE using it that way even more than I hate that they are using 4K to refer to 2160p.
      - Abion47
        
        A. I ignored your overall point because this is a stupid thing to get your pants in a wad over. But if you must know…
        
        B. That “logic” is meaningless since it doesn’t reflect reality. I have seen plenty of 1440p monitors marketed as 2K but never seen anyone, marketer or layman, refer to 1080p as “2K”. (In fact, if you look at Amazon, you’ll see that the vast majority of 4K screens are labelled “4K UHD”, the specific classification, rather than simply “4K”.)
        
        C. The terms don’t originate from marketers but from standards organization DCI as extremely generic classifications of resolutions. 4K can refer to ANY resolution with a horizontal length of approximately 4,000 pixels. (Which means that while no one refers to 1080p as “2K”, it would technically be accurate, but again that is neither here nor there since no one actually uses it that way.)
        
        And a bonus D. While the terms originated as broad classifications, they have become synonymous with the most common resolutions within those classifications. Why exactly is that a bad thing? If Pimax uses “5K” as a model name and it confuses everyone with thinking it’s a resolution classification, why do you blame everyone ELSE for that confusion and not the company that deliberately adopted a misleading moniker? This is pedantry in it’s purest form. Do you also get emotionally invested when someone says a gigabyte is 1,000 megabytes? No one cares. Reduce it to small talk trivia and move on with your life.
      - Jistuce
        
        “C. The terms don’t originate from marketers but from standards organization DCI as extremely generic classifications of resolutions. 4K can refer to ANY resolution with a horizontal length of approximately 4,000 pixels. ”
        
        This is patently untrue. DCI 4K is a very precise specification of not only resolution(exactly 4000 pixels wide), but also brightness, contrast, and gamut that most “4K” televisions have no hope of coming close to.
      - Abion47
        
        I don’t really know what the DCI 4K format having also definitions for brightness, contrast, and gamut have to do with disproving the notion that DCI first coined the term “4K” to refer to a resolution with a ~4,000 pixel width. (Incidentally, it originally referred to one of three resolutions, none of which were “exactly 4,000 pixels wide”, but were 4,096, 3,996, and 4,096 pixels wide, respectively.)
        
        Regardless, DCI is who invented the term. If I really need to spoon-feed you every step of the term’s history, the DCI 4K format was adopted by SMPTE in their SMPTE UHDTV standard which specifically names 3840×2160 as the resolution for the UHDTV1 standard. That standard was in turn adopted by other standard and communication agencies such as ITU-R and CEA, and ITU in particular were the first to use “4K”, “4K UHD”, and “4K UHDTV” as a shorthand reference to the standard 3840×2160 resolution, and that is presumably where it got picked up by marketing and became the de facto name for the standard in public.
        
        I don’t know what to tell you other than you have gotten yourself worked up over nothing. It is an officially recognized shorthand for the UHD classification of televisions and monitors. As such, your claim that it is just “marketing jargon” is itself false and misleading.
  - jlschmugge
    
    This is a little nitpicky. 4k is technically 4096×2160, and while most monitors and tvs call themselves 4k when they are actually UHD at 3840×2160, nobody really cares. The difference is 256 pixels. True 4k mostly only used in cinema, and UHD “4k” for virtually everything home theater.
    
    5k is used just to describe combined width of both screens. It’s not intended to describe any standard resolution. Technically it’s two 2k screens (2560×1440). They once called it the 4k, but I bet that was confusing to make people think each eye was a 4k screen, which is thier 8k model.
- jlschmugge
  
  Pimax use 5k/8k to emphasize the 200 deg FOV, by showing how many pixels across it is to separate themselves from other HMDs. It’s not misleading nor lying, just different than the standard vertical resolution description we are used to. The 5k is 2x 2560 width screens, and the 8k is 2x 3840 screens (two 4k screens side by side). Can be confusing at first, but once it’s explained as horizontal it makes more sense.
  - d0x360
    
    It’s marketing and it’s absolutely misrepresentation and a lie.
    
    If I go to the store and I see a few HMD’s and one of them says 4k then I would expect that to mean 4k per eye. Not 4k when you add the 2 together.
    It’s misleading and it means they are untrustworthy because they lie about the HMD to try and steal sales.
    
    I’d never buy one of their HMD’s unless they made some major changes to hardware and marketing.
    
    Hell I won’t buy another HMD until it uses OLED so despite owning hundreds of vr games and being an early adopter and promotor of vr there is a chance I’ll never buy another HMD. I’ve had the dk1, dk2, rift, and rift s. I’d switch in a heartbeat to something new with OLED because LCD is garbage.
    - jlschmugge
      
      then I would expect that to mean 4k per eye
      
      That’s probably why they changed it from the original 4k branding to 5k. They advertise the resolution per eye for each of their models as so I don’t see where they are being misleading. All I see is someone unwilling to inform themselves, or believe that others are incapable of being informed consumers, and blame it on someone else as being mislead.
      - d0x360
        
        Wow….just wow.
        
        From their website for the pimax 5k..
        
        Resolution – 2560×1440″
        
        That means when you add the 2 together you get 5k? That’s not how it works my friend and it’s misleading… Hell calling it 5k makes it seem like 5k per eye. The box of the device heavily makes it seem that way.
        
        By their moron logic the Rift S is 4k… Except it’s not and they don’t trick people into thinking it is.
      - jlschmugge
        
        Math:
        2(2560)=5120
        
        Wow….just wow you are dense, or really stubborn. 5120 pixels wide seems to be 5k+120 pixels.
        
        What was the Rift anyway, like 1080×1200? That would make both screens combined even less that one screen on the Pimax 5k. Just a 2k pixel width.
      - d0x360
        
        I was talking about the rift s but it doesn’t matter lol.
        
        Dense? Sure if thinking incredibly deceptive marketing is dense then I’m proud to be so.
        
        Dense… ROFL wow.
        ¯_(ツ)_/¯
      - jlschmugge
        
        Yeah I just see how giving something with a model name of 5k is misleading that the model has anything other than a 5k pixel width capability. It’s merely descriptive and accurate. Is it the fact that it is using two screens confusing you? What about HMDs that only use one single screen? Wouldn’t it be misleading then to show a wide pixel width if people were to think that was for each eye?
        
        You still have yet to convince me how this is deceptive. Anyone “deceived” by this marketing should just not buy anything ever, because they are too stupid to make informed consumer choices.
      - d0x360
        
        Yes I’m so confused…
        
        Saying it’s 4k, 5k.. whatever is a lie. It insinuates each eye will get a 4k image when they really get a 2k image (if your pc can handle it).
        
        They advertised it that way because they know idiots will buy it.
        
        Based on how you are defending their misleading marketing surely you own one.
        
        Im sorry they lies to you. I mean don’t you find it odd that every other HMD maker gives you the per eye resolution and not a combined resolution.
        Here think like this… You have 2 1080p monitors and you use them for say.. racing games to have a wider view. The rendered image is still 1080p… Would you add both monitors together and say you are playing in the combined resolution?
        
        NO YOU WOULDN’T. People would laugh at you.
        
        We are done.
      - jlschmugge
        
        I don’t have one, but I can do math and read product descriptions. I do think the wide FOV is intriguing, so maybe I’m a little biased because of curiosity, have looked into them and do kinda want one. I’m sorry you feel mislead, but my experience is completely different. When I first looked into the specs, the first thing I noticed was it had two 2560 pixel width screens. Never once did that occur to me as misleading. I was without issue: “that makes sense why it is called a 5k”. Just because you thought it is misleading doesn’t make it so for everybody. if they never advertised the per-eye screen resolution on their product page you might have something there, but they do advertise it, just like everyone else.
      - d0x360
        
        Bud you still don’t get it. People like us.. people that read news and comment etc.. we are the minority of gamers. Most gamers don’t know this stuff so they see whatever K on the box and they think 4k per eye.
        
        Im talking about joe average or his mother. Not the very very small number of truly informed gamers.
        
        That’s why I have an issue with it. It’s designed to mislead the other 90% of people who aren’t “gamers” but play games.
        
        What they are doing is misleading and disgusting.
      - jlschmugge
        
        I can’t imagine the average gamer even knowing anything about Pimax, or would even consider buying one after seeing the price when they can hand over just 300 bucks to Facebook. Anyone who buys something like this either has disposable income, or is not rich but serious, and the type to read news, comments, compare specs, ect. before making such an expensive purchase. If their marketing is designed to dupe the average Joe gamer, they are way off the mark, because they won’t be the ones who are buying them.
      - d0x360
        
        Can’t imagine huh… Well you need a better imagination. I’ve had friends ask me if it’s the one they should buy because they did some basic research and were stuck on resolution.
        
        Just because someone doesn’t follow all this shit hardcore doesn’t mean they won’t spend big money and find their way to the wrong thing to buy BECAUSE OF MARKETING when they look online.
      - jlschmugge
        
        Yeah we are in completely different realities. I don’t have any idiot friends interested in VR, so I cannot match the same anecdote.
      - d0x360
        
        Yes my friend is an idiot because they are interested in VR but not tech savvy.
        
        The only idiot here is you bro. A completely ignorant idiot pimax shill.
        What kind of ass insults someone for needing help with tech? Hell what kind of ass insults someone who needs help period? Oh…you. Now we know why you have no friends. Mystery solved. Moron.
      - jlschmugge
        
        This ass. If they bought the 5k thinking it was two 4k screens, which means they wanted the something like 8k, and didn’t verify the specs of what they are about to spend possibly over a thousand dollars on, then yes, I’d probably not be friends with someone as reckless, because either they are too stupid or too rich to care about being smart.
      - d0x360
        
        And that’s why you have no friends… So let’s not do this anymore. I’m bored with you. Yup… Bored.
      - jlschmugge
        
        Yep, anyone I could tolerate doesn’t want any friends either. That’s the introvert life. Not saying I’ve never had friends nor people I would still classify as friends, but they’ve generally also been introverts. Not much hanging hanging out. Social distancing has been the best thing ever.
d0x360

Uh no, the vive and index are outside in tracking. Inside out is the HMD doing the tracking. Outside in is when base stations are needed.

Sorry..
- Caven
  
  With the Vive and Index, the HMD is doing the tracking. The base stations aren’t sensors and have no inherent awareness of the HMD. All the base stations do is sweep the room with a laser that sensors on the HMD detect.
  
  An example of true outside-in tracking would be the Oculus Rift CV1, which used external cameras to detect the LED emitters build into the HMD.
  - d0x360
    
    No, it’s a difference in viewpoint. One requires multiple wires and easy setup…sorta. when I had the rift I would put away the sensors after I was done..that was obnoxious. It’s outside in because it uses base stations not which device tracks which.
    
    Make sense? I know what you’re saying and you’re not wrong.. but neither is this.
    - Ad
      
      No the Rift really was outside in, SteamVR is like having Infrared Lamps so your headset can see.
    - Schadows
      
      Outside-in means the position is determines from outside, by an observer.
      In the case of CV1, that would be the constellation cameras looking for the CV1 headset (connected to the PC).
      
      Inside-out means the position is determined by the headset, using external marker as references.
      That’s the case of Quest which use sharp edges and contrasts as dynamic markers, but that’s also the case for Steam tracking, since it’s the base-station (or more accurately the laster beams they produce) which are tracked by the headset (hence no communication needed between the base-stations and the headset nor the PC).
      
      By the way, while the quest headset is using inside-out tracking, its controller are outside-in based since they are “observed” by the headset to determine they positions.
      Steam controllers are “self-aware of their position (same mecanism as the headset), but still have to transmit their input through BT.
    - Caven
      
      What you’re describing is the difference between self-contained tracking hardware and external tracking hardware. That’s not the same as inside-out versus outside-in tracking, even though it often seems like it since headsets with self-contained tracking will inherently use inside-out tracking. Schadows’ reply has an excellent explanation of the difference.
      
      I’d sure prefer if headsets were described as having self-contained versus external tracking instead of inside-out versus outside-in tracking. After all, it’s really the presence or absence of external tracking hardware that people care about, not which direction the tracking occurs.
      - d0x360
        
        No, what I’m explaining is why some people call something what they call it and why they probably won’t stop.
        
        I’m not saying I agree with them I’m just trying to explain why they get it wrong but at the same time even if it’s wrong on a technical level it’s still correct depending on how you define it.
        
        The journalists got it from facebook basically.
Ad

Look, obviously this is pointless. But I think Pimax should look into making a modern version of the Vive. Not only could they make their own controllers and give us the SteamVR touch/cosmos controllers that we want at like half the cost of the knuckles (the sword controllers have touch pads so those don’t have much use while the Sword Sense are the same as the knuckles at the same price), but they could try and make a cheap headset. Somehow HTC was making money on the Vive at $500. I think that price point with SteamVR tracking would be ideal and Valve should get them the base stations for a fair price. Again, somehow HTC was making money on that. We even need those alternative controllers so people could have a cheaper entry or upgrade path from a Vive or to a Reverb G2. Other than they they could try some gimmicks like an Artisan with built in wireless 5gz streaming and decoding, a cheaper 8KX or one with eye tracking, and making some universal accessories.
- Amni3D
  
  We definitely need a new Vive equivalent in the market. Currently Lighthouse is just barely under the enterprise price point with the Vive Pro and Index.
  
  Something at $500-$600 with Lighthouse would be the winner.
  - Ad
    
    Yeah I need to know how HTC was making money with the Vive. The Vive wands were definitely not cheaper than normal shaped controllers, and honestly if they had made a Vive S with actual controller for $500 we would be way safer right now.
psuedonymous

“but not really address that the Vive and Index are actually technically inside-out tracking with markers”

Because they’re not: Lighthouse is outside-on. The directions photons are flying has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

Lighthouse measures world-centric coordinates (measures 2D polar X/Y coordinates relative to each fixed basestation position, then uses known basestation positions to triangulate tracked point position) and is not orientation-sensitive (a single tracked point has no clue what direction it is facing, but can know its position) so fulfills all the criteria for outside-in tracking.

In contrast, an inside-out system is orientation-sensitive (a single tracked point knows what direction it is facing, but does not know its position) and measures coordinates relative to itself. Those are the defining characteristics for Inside-out tracking.
- psuedonymous
  
  I should add to the orientation-sensitive criteria: a single tracked point at an instantaneous moment in time will know it’s position but not orientation, or vice-versa. Once you add motion and multiple points over time, you are essentially looking at a temporally distributed marker constellation rather than at single point behavior.
Lulu Vi Britannia

Oh God, not again… Either step in with a serious game or get out, ffs! You’re only hurting the industry with this shit.
By the time computers can run your 180 Hz, your headset will be outdated in every other way. Do people still not understand that? “Future proof” is retarded in the tech field.

Besides, a higher refresh rate (although always good) is NOT what VR needs. You think people will wonder “oh, VR runs at 180 Hz, NOW it is ready!”. No, absolutely not.
- jlschmugge
  
  Inside out tracking is the way to go for future proofing, and I don’t think Pimax will ever get there. It’s too big of a leap without the financial backbone of companies like HTC, HP, or Valve. Pimax will end up being a niche market mostly for simmers who are likely always sitting anyway and mostly benefit from the wide FOV. As far as the average gamer, you’d get a lot more benefit from newer and cheaper inside-out HMDs. I think as long as there are simmers, and there is a for-sure market of those who only play sims and never traditional gamey games, along with that demo being generally capable and willing to pay premiums, I think Pimax will manage to stick around. It might never become a mainstream brand, but Just like Fanatec racing wheels, you’d rarely hear an average gamer knowing about something more than a Logitec, but those in the hobby definitely know.
  - Lulu Vi Britannia
    
    Pixel density is much more important for simmers than FOV. The further you can see, the better you can drive.
    Pimax is only sticking around because some people want to think they’re knowledgeable about the tech and buy what APPEARS to be the best.
    - jlschmugge
      
      You are right. Similar can be said about how the 180 Hz refresh is pointless, because running anything at that speed means no resolution.
      
      I was thinking more about the general mainstream acceptance of VR.
      
      Wide FOV isn’t going to disappear. No one likes to wear a scuba mask. So if it isn’t Pimax, it’ll be Valve or HTC or HP down the road.
      
      What would you say is the best HMD right now for sim racing?
Pulstar44

What’s ridiculous is that they bring out a hundred different headsets but they all look exactly the same using this same casing every single time. It’s like they can’t design anything new or different. And they’ll never release the controllers they promised everyone. But they’ll release 20 more headsets. Ugh. Pimax is DOA.
sebrk

Yeah that is not accurate at all.
jlschmugge

So I wonder how they manufacture and keep stock of all these different models? There’s a part of me thinking that they have the parts lying around and don’t bother snapping them together till they get an order for one. Otherwise I’m imagining a lot of stock sitting around unbought. Just imaginative speculation though.