Pimax Launches Kickstarter Today For 8K & 5K VR Headsets

Early Bird Funding Tiers Start at $349

By
Scott Hayden
-
161

Pimax, the China-based VR headset manufacturer, just launched their Kickstarter for the hotly anticipated 8K and 5K VR headsets.

Update (09/19/17): The rumors were true; Pimax has launched their Kickstarter today. The company is aiming to reach $200,000 in funding, with prices starting at $349 for the 5K, and $449 for the 8K headset. Unlike the Kickstarter preview page that was published earlier this month, the live page quotes a January 2018 delivery for Early Bird headsets instead of the previous December 2017 shipping date.

Original article (09/11/17): To be frank, the Pimax headsets aren’t actually 8K or 5K resolution, instead integrating dual 3840×2160 LCD panels and dual 2560×1440 OLED panels respectively. Both are still higher resolution than consumer VR headsets today though, and have a much higher field of view (FOV) at 200 degrees horizontal, almost the entire 220 degree natural range of human eyes.

There’s no tier pricing on the Kickstarter preview page yet, but the first 8K/5K headsets are said to roll out to backers starting December 2017, with normal tiers delivering in February 2018.

Pimax 8K prototype showing wide FOV fresnel lenses

We had a chance to play with a prototype of Pimax 8K at this year’s CES before the company integrated Valve’s Lighthouse tracking solution—one of the first to do so outside of HTC. Road to VR’s Frank He, who tried the headset, said its 200 degree FOV was “impressive,” and that resolution-wise, he couldn’t discern sub-pixels “no matter how hard [he] looked.” To He, the screen door effect (SDE) was also diminished to the amount of “looking at a slightly textured surface or film.” The prototype did however suffer from a dim display and some geometric warping that made the experience less than perfect.

Since CES, the makers have added support for SteamVR, giving it access to a full catalog of games originally developed for the HTC Vive and Oculus Rift.

image courtesy Pimax

You may be asking yourself how a VR-ready gaming computer could possibly drive these sorts of graphically demanding resolutions. Pimax’s answer is a software technique they call ‘Brainwarp’, which renders a 4K image only on a single display at time, doing it 150/180 times per second. Pimax says users “perceive a complete 8K at 150/180 Hz with high frame rate,” and that it “boosts refresh rate, reduces latency and decreases GPU pressure for Pimax 8K.”

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What’s noticeably missing from Kickstarter page is any substantial info about the ‘next generation’ modular add-ons we reported on recently, with the page simply saying that the headset is just a starting point for DIY enthusiasts.

image courtesy Pimax

“With modular design in mind, we made Pimax 8K an extendable device that not only works with your current accessories, but also new technologies. e.g. hand motion, inside-out tracking, wireless, eye tracking, etc,” the company says. At the time of this writing, no funding tiers appear to include any of the teased add-ons.

We’ll check back in when the campaign goes live, so stay tuned.

Pimax 8K VR Specs

image courtesy Pimax

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Scott Hayden
Well before the first modern XR products hit the market, Scott recognized the potential of the technology and set out to understand and document its growth. He has been professionally reporting on the space for nearly a decade as Editor at Road to VR, authoring more than 4,000 articles on the topic. Scott brings that seasoned insight to his reporting from major industry events across the globe.
  • NooYawker

    Going to Kickstarter… so, it’s bullshit. There’s several products already on the market, next year there will be many more from many different companies. Who’s stupid enough to pay a company for a VR headset in kickstarter??

    • VR Deluxe

      You could buy the acer headset instead

      • victor

        Does the acer have 200deg FOV?

    • Rogue Transfer
      • Zachary Scott Dickerson

        ROFL, nice burn.

        • NooYawker

          I’ll pose you the same question, if Carmack didn’t come in, do you think Lucky and his kickstarter money would have made an actual product? And would it succeed if there were already VR products from major companies on the market?

          • Zachary Scott Dickerson

            Yes, they came in after it already succeeded. But it was about kickstarter, I have been burned on there before, but this company already sells to entertainment industries, so risk is very low. Warranty/quality may be suspect though, but that comes with early adopter territory.

          • NooYawker

            He succeeded in collecting everyones money but his product was a bunch of parts held together with duct tape. Even if he had a plan Valve and HTC would have railroaded them. There would be no way oculus would have been released when it did if FB didn’t buy the company.
            But to be fair, it does beg the question, how far if at all was Valves VR research before oculus made the news.

          • RFC_VR

            Valve VR research goes back years. They even came in and built a Valve VR room at Oculus HQ so they could experiment.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a0d353f33c02f0bb8f0e0a5764791bb70e321ff5ba47e7aa08cf78bede39ce43.jpg

          • NooYawker

            This is true, they are already an actual company that has actual products. So they’re not a typical kickstarter campaign.

      • NooYawker

        And if Carmack and Facebook didn’t enter the picture.. you think Lucky Palmer and a little money would have made it to market? Let’s be real, if Carmack didn’t take interest Lucky and Oculus would have been just another failed kickstart campaign.
        Secondly, would you invest in Oculus if there were several other VR headsets already selling on the market?

    • victor

      Yes there’s several other hmd already out there but none have what this has especially fov. If you actually own a hmd you would understand.

      • NooYawker

        I have a vive. I buy products out of stores and don’t give money in hopes of getting something.

        • victor

          To each their own dude!

        • Jason Liang

          why you interested in this then

  • Dave

    The best products on KickStarter do well when the project has reputable backing. I.e. a game designer or engineer of some standing in the industry. Unfortunately Pimax doesn’t quite have that standing in VR so it’s a case of one unproven design on top of another.

    Lets rewind a bit and ask ourselves why VR has had it’s growth in the last few years. It’s because a number of associated technologies have come together as a package. HTC and Oculus have realised that which is why they dominate the upper tier of VR at the moment because they can produce components across the board at a high level.

    Pimax 4K headset did have the resolution but little else. Unfortunately without the complete package the Pimax 5K and 8K will fail. So you are left to balance the reputation of the company against it’s ability to produce a more complete product than the current Oculus and HTC products and for me; I’ve got absolutely no confidence that can happen which is why this KickStarter will fail.

    • Rogue Transfer

      I’m amazed you thought that was cogent! But, let’s wait for some actual information from people who know what the actual device is like. Like Tested, who are getting a chance to try the latest Pimax 8K prototype today.

      • Dave

        Thats fair enough! Yes lets wait and see. I really hope they can further some aspect of VR with the Pimax 5K and 8K releases as it will help the industry enormously – the FOV aspect here is interesting. I just don’t expect anything to be produced that would make me part my cash based on what I know for the Pimax 4K but I could be wrong – they would have learned some lessons for sure.

        • Arashi

          Everybody who tried the headset at IFA was very/extremely positive, so I have good hope they’ve produced something very interesting.

          • RFC_VR

            its not actually hard to make a next generation HMD if you have a pile of cash for the tooling and a plant for assembly.

            The parts are actually available, the panel in my new smartphone is considerably higher specification than the panels in the Vive/Rift.

            Getting a new HMD out there? It just needs putting together, and small nimble companies can disrupt larger competitors if they have cash to burn getting it out there. Or Kickstarter cash, so they don’t burn their own money…

    • Doctor Bambi

      I’m not sure I follow what you mean by Pimax not having a complete package. You’ll get a headset, two motion controllers, and (presumably) two lighthouse base stations and it’s compatible with the largest VR marketplace, Steam. So I fail to see how it’s any less complete than either Vive or Rift today.

      • Dave

        Thats ok Bambi – you have misunderstood me. I’m talking about producing the level of quality across the board in the same mannar as Oculus or HTC have. Until they can prove that they can produce a well rounded product – then I can’t see them competing. It takes more than resolution and ticking a box for HMD, controller and tracking. The quality also needs to be at least on par if not better.

        • Arashi

          Norman from Tested.com is reviewing the headset as we speak. Should really be interesting to hear what he’s got to say about it.

          • NooYawker

            Let’s say he says it’s great. Can they mass produce it, maintain quality control and sell it at a reasonable price? I think that is what Dave is trying to point out.

          • Arashi

            “reasonable pice” that’s a tricky one. If this turns out to be THE best headset out there, then what’s a reasonable price ? It’s not that they have any competition in the wide Fov/high res market. Personally I feel ‘reasonable price’ for the whole package would be about $900, IF it’s really as good as they say it is. Quality control for sure is lower than the average US company, risk of RMA surely is going to be higher, I can live with that though.

          • NooYawker

            Price is always the death blow. Tough decisions have to be made to price a product within reason.

          • Alorwin

            Norman is also under an embargo, and if that embargo lasts even a single day past the start of the kickstarter, its purpose is to obscure the shitty quality of the product. Remember: Post-release embargoes are used to abuse consumers.

      • NooYawker

        The fact they are on kickstart shows they do not have a complete package. Having a prototype does not equate a complete package.

  • Foreign Devil

    So basically they are admitting they failed to drum up enough private investment? Usually in China that is easy to come by.

  • Zachary Scott Dickerson

    I would be interested in upgrading the HMD for my VIVE, since that is my ONLY gripe. Anything far away is always blurry, so this should help. I wonder if a GTX1080ti and 4.4ghz CPU is enough to even do this though?

    • Arashi

      It really would depend on the game. Some well programmed games scale very well. An example is “ashes of singularity” where doubling the amount of pixels only costs about 25% more GPU. Other games need 100% more GPU though when doubling the pixels.

      • Peter Hansen

        Content upscaling can help reduce the screen door effect. But native 2x 4k on a single 1080 Ti? Not really gonna happen.

    • Skyraw

      Resolution doesn’t impact CPU usage in games. I doubt very much 1080ti can do 8k90hz in VR

      • Kev

        Cell phones are doing VR, Playstation consoles are doing VR – same techniques make high res PC VR possible with current hardware. The Pimax 8k could actually finally properly render the Windows desktop. I have a Vive but this looks like it might finally be something that can serve as a all around VR device. I just wish they would make that enclosure sleeker.

  • θεός

    Palmer Luckey should just buy this company.

    • Kryojenix

      No.

    • RFC_VR

      Imagine the new venture? “Pimax / HTC / Alt Space” mashup

    • Lucidfeuer

      No. As great as Palmer Luckey’s initial (two/three) ideas were, he’s not a conceptor and that’s why Oculus developments stalled. That and Facebook management of course.

  • care package

    Kickstarters are as the name implies. This device is far beyond any starting point. Someone needs to start up a ‘keepafloat’.

    • Kryojenix

      It’s quite common for kickstarted companies to do follow-ups on kickstarter. It generates a lot of buzz and shows the level of interest, as well as creating an invested loyal base of devotees.

      • care package

        Yay for them then I guess.

  • Ted Joseph

    I am confused. How can a no name company beat Oculus and Vive to the customer base with a 200 deg FOV and 8K resolution VR headset? If this is real, I am going to switch! I have been waiting for 200 deg FOV since I purchased the Rift! Cant stand playing with the “blinders” on…

    • Kryojenix

      It’s because HTC/Valve made their VR framework open. And there’s a *lot* of entrepeneurship within China.
      That’s why the new Pimax headset will work with an existing Vive owner’s Vive Lighthouse tracking sensors, but not with Oculus sensors.

    • xebat

      Because HTC and Oculus are not making any decent amounts of money by selling hardware. So bringing out new hardware that is expensive to design, promote and manufacture again would make no sense when the current hardware sells enough. Think of it more like consoles rather than mobile phones. Good thing is VR headsets can be made by any one as long as Steam VR is supported so that’s why this no name company can squeeze in and deliver their own product in this market.

    • Peter Hansen

      I would wait for the first review, however. Such a wide FOV might mean a LOT more motion sickness, which means that a lot less titles would be rated as “comfortable” any more.

      • Xilence

        Why is that? If the refresh rate is solid, how can you get motion sick? Because your eyes see a bigger view, so anything off is more noticeable?

        • Peter Hansen

          Because of the wider field of view, yes. The visual periphery is far more sensitive to motion. Maybe you know this from everyday experience, where you “see” something quickly moving at the boarders of your visual field and you instantly turn your head. It is reasonable to suspect an evolutionary adaptation here. It is also easily noticeable if you are viewing a rotating fan or anything in your visual periphery. You often can actually see the motion there, whereas if focusing the fan blades, all you can see is a blurred disk.

          This higher sensitivity is the reason why some games and applications have a comfort mode which restricts your field of view by some kind of vignette in case of (fast) movement; see e.g. Google Earth VR or Adr1ft. This fact is also discussed regarding the question why female VR users are slightly more prone to motion sickness: women tend to have a somewhat wider field of view.

          • Lucidfeuer

            I would add to that, that the “eyes-to-brain” interface as a way of selectively blurring and reducing the “latency” of objects and motion in the outer vision area. Which the eyes should still do whatever the screen or headset in front of it, so I don’t see how that would be a problem for motion sickness. I’m sure there are some caveats to wider FOV° but I don’t see how this is one.

          • RFC_VR

            It’s reported that 140 degrees is comfortable, beyond that the tendency to motion sickness from wider FOV much more common.

            I’d guess we need to obscure the outer view range to simulate our natural vision system as Peter Hansen comments.

            Eclipse: edge of light on Daydream uses a vignette whenever moving as its full locomotion movement which is unusual for rotational tracking (3dof) VR.

            I tried taking this feature off and soon felt unwell from moving forward, and especially using jetpack to climb.

            It’s running at true 60hz/eye on Quad HD with 95 FOV so perhaps an issue with open FOV -> vertical movement and rapid forward movement causing vestibular imbalance, restoring the vignette pretty much cures this suggestion FOV very important in some applications or systems.

    • Dave Graham

      Depending on price, I’ll back this while I enjoy my CV1.

  • Matias Nassi

    This Brainwarp thing do not convince me too much. Does someone have more detailed information about this besides the few lines on the Kickstarter page? How about actual requirements of the HMD? It’s clear that no actual video card is capable of handling 4K at those high frame rates. They may be doing way lot of magic behind the scenes to achieve this on an actual video card.

    • CL

      I dont know alot about it, but ill give you my thoughts. With htc they have timewarp where you dont actually need to get 90hz to run it at 90hz. I think its half. Then you have brainwarp and on the kickstarter it looks like they run each eye alternating, but you dont notice it because its so quick.

      So you only need to run it at 45 fps to get 90 then the brainwarp doubles it somehow and thats how they end up with 180… idk. Might be some kind of gimmick where the “off” frame is count as a seperate frame.

      Anyway it upscales it if you cant run it at 4k native which will probably be the case for a while.

      • Matias Nassi

        Yeah I thought something similar, so the 180Hz seems to be just a marketing move as you are really getting only 90Hz on each eye (interleaved). Even that way, maintaining such a frame rate for high resolutions is not easy even for an actual high-end video card, much less considering those are 2x4K screens. It might be reasonable if the eye tracking technology was natively included so to support some kind of foveated rendering, but that’s not the case as it’s an optional add-on as part of that modular design afaiu. Don’t know, I’ll like to try it

        • Peter Hansen

          We can only hope that NVidia is further pushing VR SLI in the near future. One 1080 Ti per Eye could do the trick.

    • Lucidfeuer

      I think brainwarp works exactly as in 3D TVs: you don’t actually get one image-per-eye every regular 45th/60th frames, but you get one image almost instantly after the other, then another set of image one instantly after the other etc…

    • Skyraw

      tried it in 60Hz with the pimax 4k (who is only 60hz) ! it seem to work because i play in 144hz and playing on 60hz on a regular screen make me feel a difference, but i didn’t feel that way with the pimax maybe because of brainwarp.

  • Duane Locsin

    I was very interested and excited about ‘StarBreeze’s VR, with its very large FOV and high resolution, but dissapointed they where focusing on enterprise arcades, so this looks to be a very good substitute.

    +200 FOV
    +5K, 8K resolution

    Maybe not quite next generation yet as still tethered or no option to go wireless yet from what I can see.

    still happy and impressed with my Vive, but also eagerly looking to see what the next generation VR can advance on.

    • Heliosurge

      Indeed & the 5k model has the exact same native resolution as StarVR save 200° fov where StarVR has 210° fov. As for 2560×1440 upscaled to 3840×2160? I can say it works well on the 4k model. Yes native 4k over all is better. However most will need to heavily scrutinize to see the differences. That being said I went just for the 8k full package. For folks with beefy systems & top tier gpus like the 1080ti it makes sense that these ppl want the best for their setups.

  • Peter Hansen

    Sorry, but this is all vapor ware. A headset with those specs and intended features/addons, and there is no major company behind it? This will be another BIG tech fail. It just can’t work out.

  • CoffeeBuzz

    Wouldnt downscaling fix the concern with the GPU pushing the panels? I mean run the game at the same res you do now in settings of the game, just using the phycical size of the LCD to get the better fov, and as hardware specs for GPU grow, use less and less downscaling.. coupled with eye tracking and nvidia cards.. Should we still be concerned with this ?

    • And for business use, leave it on native.

    • Alorwin

      Pimax 8K only takes a 1440p signal and upscales it. Pimax 8kX takes two 4K signals via two displayport cables, and costs $400 more.

      Among many other issues.

      • tmikaeld

        Why FUD like that? Nowhere does it say that it upscales from 1440P signal (2K) it does upscale from 2160P (4K) to 4320P (8K)

        • Alorwin

          Watch the Tested review. Pimax is being deliberately vague about this reality. Pimax 8kX is the only one that actually uses a native 4k signal.

          • tmikaeld

            Still FUD, this is not fact it’s just a made up assumption.

          • Pimax have confirmed it in their FAQ comments too.
            Xunshu replied 3 days ago to a question “What is the input of Pimax 8K” with the answer….
            “2560*1440 per eye, upscale to 3840*2160 per eye.
            We do plan to offer a 2 DP version with 8K input, but very few people can run it, it requires min 1080ti, it costs much more, and ship later.”

            Source: http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-8k-vr-frequent-asked-questions/2958/5

          • tmikaeld

            You’re even quoting them, PER EYE, the GPU still need to render TWO SCREENS and they even cite the input is 4K for the 8K headset!

          • Yes, it upscales PER EYE from 1440p to 2160p PER EYE. You said it does not scale from 1440p, it does, it does it PER EYE.

          • tmikaeld

            Yeah, so then what are arguing about? The input is still 4K for the 8K headset and 8K for the 8K X headset (using two DP cables).

          • tmikaeld

            All that matters is the INPUT signal from the computer and for 8K headset that input is 4K.

            From their official FAQ: https://i.imgur.com/MnMsir0.png

          • Anthony Kenneth Steele

            They are saying 980 gtx/1070 gtx minimum

        • Callsign Vega

          Bad info. There is no 4320P. What Pimax is reffering to “8K” is simply the width of putting two 4K panels side by side. So the resolution is 7680×2160, or exactly half of 8K for the “X” version.

          The non-X version is just 5120×1440 (what they call 4K), up-scaled to dual 4K displays. That’s why they state a lowly GTX 980 can handle it.

          • tmikaeld

            All that matters is the INPUT signal from the computer and for 8K headset that input is 4K.

            From their official FAQ: https://i.imgur.com/MnMsir0.png

            If you are complaining about it not being fully 8K, that’s what the 8K X is for but good luck running that without dual 1080 Ti.

          • Callsign Vega

            Their marketing department is horrid.

            FACT: 8K model input is: 5120×1440 and then up-scaled to 7680×2160.

            FACT: 8K X model input is: 7680×2160 native.

            That is all you need to know.

          • tmikaeld

            Yeah, and that’s perfectly fine

          • Piou

            As far as the door screen effect is gone and the image is crisp I don’t care if there is an upscale or not.

        • theonlyrealconan

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKc_KFDebbA

          It is upscaled 1440. I wish I was wrong.

          • tmikaeld

            Why? That’s a total of 5120×1440 then up-scaled to 7680×2160. That’s perfectly fine

  • Ed

    Happy to hear about lighthouse integration. If this hardware can (assuming your GPU can deliver it) handle 90fps non-interleaved then I’m definitely interested.

  • * 200 degree field of view = win
    * 180 Hz (brain warp tech) = win
    * licensed Valve’s SteamVR tracking technology (Lighthouse, wands etc)
    * Their own wand = ok
    * No screen door = massive win, especially for daily business use
    * They demoed on a laptop!
    * Supports Steam and Oculus stores.

    Accessories announced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCOsJRopjMc

    1) Inside out tracking bolt on so support for MS Mixed reality with hand tracking.
    2) Scent module
    3) Eye tracking
    4) Fans
    5) Headstrap with headphones
    6) Faceplate for spectacle users
    7) Wireless module.

    They have a track record, have already launched other headsets and seemingly upped the game on a massive scale if this press release is anything to go by.

    Excited to see this coming.

    • sebrk

      You realize doing those things with quality is simply not true? Pimax previous headset is complete and utter crap i comparison with Vive/Rift even though it boasts better hardware.

      • I cannot make that judgement myself having never owned the 4K model. Reviews can be old info when newer revisions come out too. However various people on the forums that have both the 4K and the Vive have recently stated that the 4K is much much sharper than the Vive (and you would expect this) but lacks in tracking, hz etc. So naturally you would want them to work on those aspects, this to all intents seems to suggest that is exactly what they have done. I myself will hold judgement until they ship, with fingers crossed.

        If anything it will push Oculus / HTC to up their version 2 game faster as any mention of a better headset (on paper) and released this year will hamper their sales regardless if it turns out to be inferior or from a company not many know. People will hold off.

      • Skyraw

        I have it, he is way better than the rift and vive in screen quality (just a bit less bright), and work perfectly without any mods on steam AND oculus games. he just doesn’t have positionnal tracking and motion controller, as advertised… For 300$, it seem a pretty fair trad for me. Plus, the team is very communicative and listen his community.
        And here they have created their 8k/5k thinking of all the advices of the community.
        So stop thinking things and start trying before speaking ! (;

        • sebrk

          Seeing your excellent Google Translate knowledge I take it you are from Pimax yourself. LOL.

          • Skyraw

            Or maybe i’m french and i don’t care about making mistakes in english as long as i make myself understood… If you are too dumb to understand some mistakes made by strangers (and you would be the first i met on internet), i can’t do anything for you bae (;

      • victor

        sebrk:
        Bull!
        Plenty of people on Elite Dangerous forums preferring Pimax 4K over the oculus and vive!

    • There is definitely a screen door effect with this headset, unfortunately. :(

      • Really? can you elaborate on that?

        • Jason Liang

          im guessing you can see it when you looking hard for it.
          but unlike vive or rift you notice it straight away

        • Having demoed it recently, I observed that although the pixel density is improved from other HMD’s, most of the extra resolution contributes to expanding the field of view rather than eliminating pixelation entirely.

  • Dave Graham

    As a current Rift CV1 owner I’m very interested in where Pimax is heading.
    If the entry price isn’t too steep I can see me backing this project and will eb interested in seeing how they plan to address the dim image caused by rendering 1 eye at a time.

  • Adrian Jakubiak

    Im extremly curious test of this.
    Especially how it will be working with Vive lighthouses and (in future) with knuckels controlers, those presented by Pimax looks a little odd…

  • sebrk

    Previous Pimax headset was about the worst I’ve used in VR. Warping was completely off and sickness fast set in. Tracking of hands was also completely off. I hope this is not just one of the chinese “first to market, crap quality”. Seen too much of that lately.

    • Lucidfeuer

      How was warping completely off?

      • sebrk

        The view was not linear. Around the edges of the lenses the image warped unnatural giving a small but noticable fisheye effect. At least that is the case on the Pimax we tested for a client.

        • Lucidfeuer

          I see, kind of like the PSVR. Well I’m not surprised by that given how wide the screens are compared to the lenses which means some warping on the edges. We’ll see for this one.

          • sebrk

            Their previous one was has about the same FOV as Oculus and Vive. It’s just much worse.

  • Lucidfeuer

    Definitely interested for the sake of 8K/200FoV/180hz, might order one but I doubt this doesn’t come with problems or limitations of sorts.

  • arielwollinger

    Sooooo, 8K is actually 4K. Why the fuck they do this?

    • bluesatoshi

      It’s got two 4k displays. 4 + 4 = 8.
      Really more of a naming convention than anything.

  • kosmo1982

    did they finally resolved drift in first Pimax? cause i sold it because it was unusable with drift

  • MW

    First significant vr news from months. Today vr still loks like crap, no matther what content.

  • Marek

    There are few things I am really interested to test when Pimax 8K arrives.

    First is field of view. I am sure, that it will be significantly wider that most of other devices, but 200 degrees needs to be measured. One think is to squeeze 200 degrees of virtual image into displays, and other is to have right dimensions of the objects.

    Other thing is resolution of 2x 4K displays. If they are using Sharp 4K displays, their real amount of full pixels is 3480 x 1440, so improvement, compared to 2x 2560×1440 would not be that visible. The end picture quality will depend more on used optical system (lenses quality and focus), than resolution itself. A bit similar situation is with 2x 2560×1440 OLEDs, because they most likely does not have full RGB, so real resolution in RGB is only 2/3.

    Last, but not least is performance. I really hope, that they somehow solved performance issues. Right now, running HMD with 2x 2560×1440 using some high quality content, I am unable to get at least 50 fps using nVidia Titan XP, which performs best so far. I tried also 1080, 1080 Ti, with and without SLI, AMD R9 and P6000.

  • Michael Banks

    Being that Pimax will incoporate eye tracking.. means this will open to foveated rendering (OTOY)

    • Andrew Jakobs

      eye tracking is optional.

  • Michael Banks

    I bet that “Brainwarp” is simply incoporating foveated rendering techniques.

  • Pimax faq>> “What is the input of Pimax 8K”
    2560*1440 per eye, upscale to 3840*2160 per eye.
    We do plan to offer a 2 DP version with 8K input, but very few people can run it, it requires min 1080ti, it costs much more, and ship later.
    ———–
    Think I will hold off for the 2 DP version myself. I already have a 1080ti but for every day business use / software development I would want a higher native input than 2k

    Edit: Scrap that, it’s on the Kickstarter! as the “8K X”! Going fast!

  • VRgameDevGirl

    Ok, I am buying this. 200 FOV!!!!

    • Some have sold out already. Be quick!

  • NooYawker

    So, why are they on kickstarter instead of just selling these things like a normal company?

  • victor

    kickstarter goal already surpassed!
    Obvious demand for this!

  • Firestorm185

    Wow. They’re already at 200% of they’re goal. Crap. xD

  • MosBen

    Meh, I’ll pass. My Rift does a good enough job for today. When Oculus or Valve put out a new device, I’ll pay attention. At this point in the market I just don’t think that it’s worth backing some minor player. The next generation Rift or Vive will likely have increased FOV and better displays, but I’ll be surprised as hell if they aren’t also wireless, which is the single factor that I think is most likely to help VR break through to the masses.

  • VRgameDevGirl

    Well, nevermind. It’s not a real 200° FOV. It stretches the ends of the images to fake it. Watch the video “Tested” did. I want the real thing. I’ll pass.

    • Jason Liang

      looks like it may need software support to ultilize the fov

    • Hmm, not sure you have that quite right.

      I assume you mean this ‘Tested’ video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuVWs9IZIvk ?

      They start talking about wide FOV just after 22:30. What they said was that the game Fruit Ninja VR did not cater for such a wide FOV so the Pimax driver stretched it out to make it fit their 200 deg FOV. It is down to game developers to support super wide resolution. I guess that was a bad game to test. GPU drivers offer the same thing, stretch, crop, native etc. TV’s do the same thing too, they can take a 4:3 image and try to make it fit inside a 16:9 display. From what I gather that is what they are talking about here.

      They also state that the FOV was it’s main feature and going back to current generation headsets was like putting on a scuba mask.

    • FireAndTheVoid

      Fresh review out from Tom’s Hardware: “We’ve seen a lot of discussion online about the image in the Pimax headset being stretched, with people suggesting that games are rendered at the same FOV as the Vive and then stretched. We did not observe such characteristics, and the Pimax representative told us that SteamVR handles the native FOV of the headset.” (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pimax-8k-vr-headset-trial,35745.html)

      • Good review, thanks for posting. The only worry I had was that “Text was a blurry mess”. With these 4K panels I hope that is a misconfiguration somewhere as they should produce clear text.

        • Heliosurge

          Keep in mind the prototype at Immersed is not the new one with ipd adjustment heading to the US. With ipd adjustment you will see crisper text as we will be able to adjust cto acheive proper convergence.

          My review is in the PiMax forums.

  • Duane Locsin

    Even when I already have a Vive, I’m kind of tempted.

    Don’t care too much about the higher resolution, since that would be a natural progression, but the 200 increased FOV is encouraging.

    Big factors that would make me adopt the next gen of VR are.

    -Integrated wireless
    -huge FOV
    -locomotion finally solved in the way of a CONSUMER VR Treadmill we all know locomotion is the third piece of the puzzle allowing us to traverse the virtual world)

    • I agree on locomotion being the next puzzle. I think the barrier between natural movement and faked movement is too vast to simulate and maintain a full immersive state like the visual aspect can nearly do.

      The only device I can imagine is something that uses hydraulics along with pressure sensor plates that we are suspended in. It needs to provide resistance of an invisible world that the software creates. So you can not for example walk through a virtual wall.

      e.g. my vision is a sort of Exoskeleton shell that hangs down from a frame, you climb into it, strap yourself in then when you let gravity take over, each foot is standing on a plate that is part of the suspended exoskeleton, if you raise your knee then pressure plates detect this and the hydraulics assist the suit to move. In the VR world you hardly feel this and your knee simply raises up. You then go into full on run, jump modes etc. A bit like a slim version of the APU from the Matrix but this thing is locked in place off the floor.

      If you come to a virtual obstacle then the hydraulics simply do not allow movement through it or they add friction / resist movement for things like walking in quicksand.

      This sort of thing would probably end up in the Army first though.

      • Mukund Dhananjay

        Erm…..or you could simply get one of the many IMU based motion capture suits like Perception Neuron…..

        • Eh? Motion capture or large scale tracking has been around for years but that does not scale well for VR entertainment where the user has a small space. It offers no feedback to the virtual environment and can not stop your actions. Different things altogether.

          For example, solve the problem of running and turning while not leaving a small 10 foot room. Now add jumping into that.

          Virtuix omni came up with a partial solution to movement but more is needed. http://www.virtuix.com/

          There is also https://axonvr.com/ which is heading this direction too.

          • Mukund Dhananjay

            https://neuronmocap.com/

            A small demo/game I made using Unreal, and a motion capture suit, working in a space smaller than 10ftx10ft

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOB3HhDQie8

            Watch and learn, my friend.

          • >> Watch and learn, my friend
            Did you read my post at all? Look at the links maybe? What you posted was a video that has nothing to do with what I am talking about, absolutely nothing in your video has any relevance to what I am talking about. No running, no jumping, no physical resistance. You just showed off some gesture UI.

          • Mukund Dhananjay

            So the idea is, you CAN run and jump with IMU based Mocap suits, and they’re waaay more compact and “elegant” than the stuff you’ve linked to (which I read, by the way). For haptic feedback, check out hardlightvr.com (which is commercially available for Vive and Oculus Touch).

            Also, first brush up on what IMU based mocap suits are, yeah?

          • Read this >>>> “Solve the problem of running and turning while not leaving a small 10 foot room. Now add jumping into that.”

            IMU mocap suits would have you running flatout into a wall in under half a second. Haptics offer no resistance so not applicable to my post.
            I am not discussing off the shelf solutions that already exist as they do not solve the problem with running and turning in VR while allowing you to jump at the same time AND keeping you in the same space.

          • Mukund Dhananjay

            Agreed, but here’s the thing: you wouldn’t want a giant robotic arm with limbs dangling from it in your living room/den either (well, maybe you and me would :P).

            Point is, this tech, isn’t really what you would sell to a normal person, mainly because of prohibitive costs, and extremely few specialized apps exist to take advantage of its power. The kind of the device you mention works beautifully inside an amusement park, where people are enthralled by it…for 5 minutes and then they move on making poop smile on their 1000$ slab of glass. Sadness of our lives :(

          • Aye. It will happen one day though. I wouldn’t want to strap myself into a huge chunk of metal to travel down the road but I do it everytime I get in the car. It is all a matter of utility in the end. If it solves a heap of problems, people will buy it….eventually.

            The ultimate feedback experience would be a liquid-to-solid compound that can be programmed to shape itself to virtual objects but that would need a booth. If you read, this book has such a virtual environment: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/527246.Society_of_the_Mind

            e.g. You step into a booth, just your clothes on, no gadgets other than visual (e.g. headset). The booth has an advanced liquid-to-solid compound structure. The inside of the booth has this compound on the floor, sides and ceiling, it can be programmed to shape itself. (think of those pin boards that can shape when you press your hand into them but take it further so that they can move not only in z but in x and y too) When you enter the booth it becomes active, you take a step forwards and the floor shifts under your feet sliding you back to the center point. In VR it appears you have moved forward one step but in reality you are at the same spot in the real world. in the virtual environment you come to some stairs and raise your foot to step on a step. In the booth, the liquid to solid compound shifts shape and appears under your raised foot, you step down on it, can feel it and your body moves upwards while in the booth it has already moved you back to the real world center point. <<< I want that now dammit lol

          • Mukund Dhananjay

            You do realize what you’re describing is sounds like the thing used by the machines in the matrix in the human pod thingies :P

          • The neural interface? When Neo wakes up for the first time and the Matrix purges him? That is something else and probably where the visual interface part is heading. Research is already being done on that front. Dreams for instance feel completely real, you can run, jump feel, smell, everything. I spent a lot of time in my youth practising the art of lucid dreaming. When you become aware you are dreaming, when you are awake but still inside the dream world. It is incredible, better than any game ever created. :) If you have long REM stages then I suggest you try induce one and play around in your own mini matrix :)

          • Mukund Dhananjay

            Not the neural interface, but the goopy, gooey stuff he wakes up in.

  • Dan VR

    Backed! Can’t wait for my 8K HMD.

  • theonlyrealconan

    Just backed the 8k for $499 (since I already have the vive and the sensors). Not sure what I am more excited about, the lack of SDE or the 200 FOV (probably the FOV).

  • Carl J S

    you can clearly see that this device they tested used 2 cable input so its the 8k x device tested? the 8k only device use just 1 cable input ? and less res

  • Muzufuzo

    NO! NO! NO!
    It is NOT 8K!
    Stop using such clickbaity titles! Even if there is a clarification in the text.
    8K in VR is 2x7680x4320!
    Pimax offers 4K VR as it is two 4K screens, viewed in stereoscopic vision look like 3840×2160. FOV is very impressive, almost full, much better than others.

  • theonlyrealconan

    I might be canceling my order. It is not native 4k. It is 1440 upscaled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKc_KFDebbA

  • CoffeeBuzz

    Okay I pledged for the 8k basic. Pretty stoked I can sell my vive if this is what I hope it is to recoup the low cost. Im super excited about the FOV and less SDE. AND it uses vive standards! It was the tested review that pushed me over.

  • And we trust a Chinese manufacturer to tell us the truth why?
    Choosing to NOT run a ‘Red’ Light is not an act of prejudice, it’s an act of Discernment!

    • CoffeeBuzz

      Not sure what you are going on about. They have sent demo units out to many reputable reviewers such as tested.

  • theonlyrealconan

    FYI: the 5k and 8k (not the 8k x) use the same screens, but the 8k upscales the 1440 image (per eye). It has been talked about and shown many times on the chats on the kickstarter page. Here are a couple directly from the kickstarter/dev:

    PIMAX VR staff Collaborator 17 minutes ago
    @Saar Thanks for your support, let me answer your question. Please don’t worry, 1070 is available in 5k.
    Hardware requirement: GPU – GTX980/1070, CPU – i5, Memory – 8GB.
    1. 5k module have same capabilities as 8k
    2. 5k and 8k are both use the same screen(CLPL display)
    3. Pimax 5K/8K works with all valve accessories, we will use a chip that compatible with both v1 and v2 vive controllers
    4.I don’t understand what you mean by the last point. Can you describe it again？
    Thank you

    (and)

    PIMAX VR staff Collaborator about 5 hours ago
    Q: I have not seen this asked yet. How much more GPU power does the 8k demand over the 5k. I ask because the 8k up scales internally, so perhaps there is not much additional GPU needed for the 8k at all ??
    A:Yes as you say

    • CoffeeBuzz

      You are incorrect.

      They use the same technology screen CLPL but different resolutions.
      The 8k model does have higher res than 5k and you get the benefit of higher pixel density. The 5k is said by Tested review to have same SDE as vive or rift because it has nearly double horizontal res, but also has almost double fov .. so your pixel density looks about same.. NOT THE CASE ON 8K with twice the pixel density

      Both 8k and 8kx use dual 3840×2160 panels
      the 5k uses dual 2560×1440

      So the 8k will upscale and has better pixel density removing more screen door effect than the 5k. SO IN SHORT YOU PAY 100 MORE FOR TWICE THE PIXEL DENSITY ON THE 8K on a 200 FOV @ NO ADDITIONAL GPU COST .. UHMM WORTH IT! :) at least to me.. I am glad they came up with such a clever upgrade from the 5k

      The difference between the 8k and 8k X are

      1. the 8k can only accept one input and that is 1440 signal it then upscales it internally to the panel native res.

      2. THE 8K X can accept two inputs from two display ports allowing the full native res with next gen cards.. they think perhaps a 1080ti can do it, but maybe need them in sli.. or wait on next gen cards.

      • theonlyrealconan

        Trying to get a clear answer from the devs on their kickstarter chat. I will update when it comes. I keep getting plenty of response from everyone else that it is 1440 native (which is not official, i know). And in the Tested youtube video, I am pretty sure they tested the 8k, not the 8k x (and not the 5k). The pro version they are talking about is not the 8k, it is the unreleased 8k x that is coming out in May. So the tested people are saying that you can still see pixels (but a lot less) with the 8k, which would support the notion of 1440 upscaled (again, not official, i know).

        For the record: I hope you are right and I am wrong. ;)

        • CoffeeBuzz

          The tested team had the 8k AND the 5k, they only have information on the 8K X , they did not have the unit. The info they share on using the 5k is in the last like 3 minutes of the review.

  • Rodrigo Martinelli

    So as far as i understand, it uses the Vive’s environment and it’s just a headset upgrade ? i wonder if it’s worth it.. i dont have nor want to upgrade my pc to run a 8kX just yet but would like to have better resolution and FoV than stock Vive..

  • Stephane Debus

    test really interesting and good news :) https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/12/pimax-8k-vr-headset/ :) :)

  • Anthony Kenneth Steele

    For the starVR there were complaints of blury lenses and with this i’ve heard nothing like that so far :)